Systemd 216 Piles On More Features, Aims For New User-Space VT

[jrch2k8]

I'm ready to move away from systemd at this point. I'm coming from Fedora and openSUSE. Suggestions? BSD? Are there any popular Linux distros left that aren't under RH control?

thanks

openBSD and BSD dragonfly are your answer because FreeBSD is trying to move forward and that will probably won't work for you either in the long run

[gens]

I'm ready to move away from systemd at this point. I'm coming from Fedora and openSUSE. Suggestions? BSD? Are there any popular Linux distros left that aren't under RH control?

thanks

slackware, gentoo, crux

[jrch2k8]

slackware, gentoo, crux

well slackware and crux could change to systemd in the near future and gentoo supports systemd and openrc, so if you wanna be sure to use something that will never ever ever use systemd and never will be even compatible with systemd dragonfly BSD and OpenBSD are your perfect choices because even FreeBSD could be tempted to add an linux emulation layer for systemd in the future to try reach desktop users

[robclark]

Well, from what I've read, the in kernel VT code is crufty, fragile and "scary". Moving the VT code out of the kernel and into userland, while using saner and cleaner code has been a wish. Does it matter that userspace VT is handled by systemd?

One can dislike systemd, but for better or worse, the project has become the low level, unified Linux userland. Instead of resisting the done deal* of systemd as Linux' system suite, why not make more use of it?

*The deal is done people. For all the teeth gnashing and sniping in forums, there have been zero efforts to start a viable, alternative project that can compete with systemd. SysV init is EOL. Distro's are not going to halt progress, just because vocal people on the internet are glorifying an outdated, limited and ill fitting init system. Before a smart ass comments that SysV fits just right, then why are all distro's switching away from SysV? No, alien mind control is not an acceptable answer, nor is coercion (or black magic) from Lennart Poettering.

+1 for userspace VT.. putting it in systemd doesn't seem unusual. It's the sort of thing you'd want pretty in pretty early userspace, so systemd seems like a natural fit.

[tajjada]

...that explicitly insults me (namely logind, /etc/systemd/).

I am curious, how exactly does it insult you?

[blackout23]

I'm ready to move away from systemd at this point. I'm coming from Fedora and openSUSE. Suggestions? BSD? Are there any popular Linux distros left that aren't under RH control?

thanks

I think every Linux distro will eventually use systemd. It's just to hard to stay in a timebubble as a distro in the Linux world with its interdependencies.

Who knows maybe even GNU/Hurd and FreeBSD will use systemd in the future. From what people say it should not be impossible if these projects support the right interfaces.

The only way to be really sure systemd won't get you is to move to Windows.

[r_a_trip]

what the f gave you the idea that linux was supposed to be just a terminal emulator ?

Oh I don't know, maybe Torvalds himself in his book Just for fun.

[xeekei]

I'm ready to move away from systemd at this point. I'm coming from Fedora and openSUSE. Suggestions? BSD? Are there any popular Linux distros left that aren't under RH control?

thanks

OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch, Gentoo, Slackware... Oh, actually it's easier to just say, any distro that is not Red Hat Enterprise Linux or Fedora (and I'm not actually sure about Fedora).

Some of them (most) use systemd, but their certainly not "under Red Hat control".

[TeamBlackFox]

Actually, Linux with systemd is becoming more like a BSD clone with a better kernel.

Just like LibreSSL, OpenSSH, and other tools depend on OpenBSD, now our DNS resolvers, NTP sync daemons, and network config tools depend on systemd. The approach of "put everything into one source repository and call it the base system" is pretty much what most BSDs are about, and now systemd does something similar for a limited selection of basic tools with quite some success and quite some win for the users.

And just like the portability wrapper for LibreSSL, there's systemd-shim as a portability wrapper for parts of systemd (I think logind mostly). :-)

Edit: Oh yeah, in case you want to read up on your BSD skills, see this: https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullerm...s/bsd4linux/03 (It's for Linux users, but maybe you can see that systemd is similar to BSD from that POV.)

I firmly disagree. First off I prefer the BSD kernels because they're more open than the Linux kernel. The BSD licencing scheme is more compatible with my personal philosophy of fairness.

While systemd is unifying the lower user land I don't like the way it has things setup. I prefer the BSD rc init or Runit because they're more secure: they don't have the process supervisor combined with the startup daemon. I also don't like binary logging, pulseaudio when it just makes ALSA ever more broken : OSS was just fine! BSD uses OSS with no ill effects.

[xeekei]

I firmly disagree. First off I prefer the BSD kernels because they're more open than the Linux kernel. The BSD licencing scheme is more compatible with my personal philosophy of fairness.

While systemd is unifying the lower user land I don't like the way it has things setup. I prefer the BSD rc init or Runit because they're more secure: they don't have the process supervisor combined with the startup daemon. I also don't like binary logging, pulseaudio when it just makes ALSA ever more broken : OSS was just fine! BSD uses OSS with no ill effects.

I agree that OSS is the better system, but it would be a lot of work to switch again. Audio vendors seem to be the most "I don't wanna!" of all vendors, actually.
Though PulseAudio does NOT make ALSA more broken. It adds functionality. I'd prefer if we just fixed ALSA, but maybe there's a roadblock on that.
Also, Linux is not less open than the BSD kernels, that's pure bullshit.

I might agree on the Journal though, I haven't really had my "oh neat" moment with it. Didn't like syslog either though, maybe I just hate reading logs.

But using a bunch of scripts to boot up the machine is....crazy. Especially in the modern age.