Kdbus Will Likely Be Merged Into The Kernel This Year

[Delgarde]

Multiseat is a completely valid usecase, so users who want multiseat should install logind. But it is not an argument to force it on the majority who do not require multiseat.

It *is* an argument, because software developers don't want to maintain two code paths when they can maintain one, especially when one of the two covers both cases. Call them lazy, if you like, but not as lazy as the people who spend all their time complaining about things instead of fixing them.

[liam]

True, not the best possible choice of words. It is a custom binary format, not serialized XML..

Cheers,
_

I understood what you meant. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some subtlety I was missing. I didn't major in cs so gaps exist in my knowledge

[Skrapion]

It is a general philosophical stance. Certainly one can find software examples that follow it, and examples that do not.

But how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Making software as modular as possible is not practical. If we take that to its logical conclusion, it means putting every function in its own library. Clearly a line has to be drawn somewhere, and where that line is draw differs for different projects.

Ultimately, modules are only useful if more than one project relies on them, or if there's more than one implementation of them. Otherwise, modules are just another point of failure.

But what about the future, you ask? Maybe only one project uses a certain feature right now, and maybe there's only one implementation right now, but anything can happen in the future! Well, sure, but here's the secret: it's not really that hard to refactor software into modules when you need to, and it usually makes a whole lot more sense than trying to guess the future.

[curaga]

Well, I for one am not satisfied in the least in the fact that usability has stayed the same or even gotten worse over two decades, and a huge computing power increase. It is a clear sign that something has gone wrong in the general developer attitudes.

I'm doing what I can to fight it; what about you?

[pal666]

Well, I for one am not satisfied in the least in the fact that usability has stayed the same or even gotten worse over two decades, and a huge computing power increase. It is a clear sign that something has gone wrong in the general developer attitudes.

I'm doing what I can to fight it; what about you?

you are just stupid kid crying in sandbox that nobody does what you want. guess what ? nobody cares. world will not stop because you, moron, failed to understand something

[TheBlackCat]

Well, I for one am not satisfied in the least in the fact that usability has stayed the same or even gotten worse over two decades, and a huge computing power increase. It is a clear sign that something has gone wrong in the general developer attitudes.

I'm doing what I can to fight it; what about you?

And keeping legacy cruft around rather than replacing it with something designed to fit with modern computing systems helps this...how, exactly?

Have you ever considered the baggage that software has accumulated over the last two decades might be part of the problem?

[curaga]

That's it faggot. You're now #2 in my ignore list: only people who cannot keep a civil discussion.

[curaga]

Hah, vBulletin not notifying of new posts. I was referring to pal666 of course.

[curaga]

And keeping legacy cruft around rather than replacing it with something designed to fit with modern computing systems helps this...how, exactly?

Have you ever considered the baggage that software has accumulated over the last two decades might be part of the problem?

I was speaking in general, not about kdbus/systemd/whatever. The same bloat is just as visible in editors, office suites, web browsers, email clients. You cannot claim that all these very different areas of software have legacy baggage as the reason for their bloat.

[caligula]

I was speaking in general, not about kdbus/systemd/whatever. The same bloat is just as visible in editors, office suites, web browsers, email clients. You cannot claim that all these very different areas of software have legacy baggage as the reason for their bloat.

Oftentimes developer productivity is more important than software size. Look how hard drive size has grown. From 20 MB to 4 TB in 30 years. That's.. that's 6 orders of magnitude. How about RAM? 64 kB to 64 GB. Again 6 orders of magnitude. How about CPU/GPU power? We had single 4 MHz 8-bit core. Now we have 2048 GPU cores (good at 32-64bit maths) @ 1,5 GHz and 8-16 CPU cores (good at 32-512 bit maths) @ 4 GHz. It's again 6 orders of magnitude.

Compare that to developer. Or work time has decreased, people waste more time with social media and attention span is slower. On the other hand there's stackoverflow and other sites you can copypaste code from. Maybe overall the productivity has improved 2 times with respect to these. How about IDEs and languages? C -> Java or C# and refactoring IDE. Maybe 2-10x improvement in productivity. So.. overall humans have improved 1 order of magnitude, machines 6. How about problem size?

Program were small. DOS .COM programs were 64k max. Now? 50 MB is a typical binary size + you have hundreds of multi megabyte deps. So.. the complexity has grown say 3-4 orders of magnitude. The only way to cope with this challenge is to improve machine speed. We are currently 3-4 orders of magnitude ahead of problem complexity improvements which you can easily see. Computers are everywhere. In the future complexity will grow. It means development time slows down even further. The only way to fight this is add more CPU/GPU power and improve IDEs and use larger abstractions from libraries. You might need to start working with 100 MB black box components MIN. Anything smaller is premature optimization, the root of all evil. The hard drives surely can handle this and besides apps move to cloud where there is infinite space and deduplication so it doesn't matter.