What People Are Saying About GNOME [Part 3]

[kaczu]

There are situations were you actually may want compositing completely off. and FYI It doesn't kill my productivity at all, in the odd case where i do this... I still have all of my desktops, the majority of hotkeys and the rest of my tools such as dockbarX/kupfer/etc. Not only that but i have gestures to enable/disable compositing ~ it's not an issue at all.

Compiz doesn't work without compositing.

So gnome-shell doesn't include a dock/launcher? (Dash)
gnome-shell doesn't include keylauncher?
gnome-shell doesn't include a modern compositing WM? (mutter/GS itself)
gnome-shell doesn't include 'main-menu' or similar function???

NOTE: KDE / GNOME are full on DE's with modern features and plugins (and e17 to a lesser extent). Fxce, LXDE, FLUXBOX, etc are small / minimal (winXP or less type DE...old style) desktops in comparison. Would you compare XFCE to win7 - probably not. How about KDE/GS vs. win7 - they are a little closer in size and features, right?? (probably a better comparision, don't you think?)

Are you really this silly? I'm comparing 'apples to apples'. Gnome3/GS does include all of this shit, and saying otherwise, now after we have been over this stuff, is retarded. How about KDE??? Last time i took KDE for a spin - it was fully-featured (KDE 4.7). FYI the only thing i didn't include above was easystroke (but that was never in the comparison to begin with, just mentioned as a 'sidenote').

comparing G3/Compiz to GS is completely relevent!

No it's not because you've pretty much replaced the default workspace in G3. Something you would do even in G2. Just like the installation of AWN I spoke of earlier. So please you aren't fooling anyone. I asked you those questions because it's pretty darn clear that just like anyone would do they would customise their workspace which you have done. If you were able to do it then there really isn't a problem with GS now is there? You don't use it, just like you don't really use the normal panel. You pretty much have proven that you were able to install compiz and everything you wanted. So you are complaining because? Well that's now obvious...because you can.... nothing more. The rest of what you've written in now moot since you use G3.2 and have no problems using compiz and any other application you would normally use. Case closed.

As I said before, most people are complaining to complain. There's very little to most of what's said that is genuine. Does GS have issues? Yup, of course it does. However, that doesn't mean that merely because GS exists that productivity is destroyed. As you have so expertly shown us you are able to create the workspace you wanted and are quite productive. Good job.

[ninez]

Compiz doesn't work without compositing.

Can you not read???? I already covered the fact that compiz doesn't work without compositing. In fact, i specifically said that disabling compiz does not really change my desktop experience. and FYI GS does not work without compositing either. (and before you make some dumb comment on how it does, LLVMpipe is doing compositing - just on the CPU over GPU)The difference - if i disable compositing in GS - i am left with a broken desktop experience. What aren't you understanding??? we've already been over this, bud. how moronic of you.

No it's not because you've pretty much replaced the default workspace in G3.

No it's not, eh???

1. Gnome 3 - provides all of the backend stuff, libs, apps, etc. (for both desktop configurations g3/compiz & GS)
2. GS/Mutter - a compositing WM .... Compiz is also a compositing window manager = they are 'in fact' comparable, dumbass.
3. GS provides a keylauncher - kupfer is also a keylauncher = they are comparable
4. Dash is a quicklauncher / grouping/tabbing dock ... dockbarX/Awn/etc same idea (but better) = they are comparable
5. Activities Overlay provides facility for finding/launching applications ... same goes for 'main-menu' or gnome-pie = comparable
6. Activities/Overlay provides Scale/workspace ... which means it can be compared to any compositing WM/ any OS that also provides similar features.

this list could go on, but i think by now - you should get the idea. Notice how in each case GS has it's version of the tool integrated, and in most cases you can't get around that? that means i have to have 2x the tools running with GS, than i would in G2 or G3/classic. What aren't you understanding here. they are completely comparable - and you are silly to argue that they aren't.

that being said, yes i have replaced mutter/gnome-panel/GS with other tools, because GS didn't cut it, and i think installing all of this stuff on top of GS is a waste, as that would make using GS pointless, unless 'bling' is what is more important. These tools are similar (although much better), and to take a page out of your book - they provide 'the same basic functionality' ...

Something you would do even in G2. Just like the installation of AWN I spoke of earlier.

There are huge differences between G2 and Gnome-Shell. G2 never really tried to be all inclusive and integrated, in the way GS does. ...and don't even argue that, one look at 'Activites' and it's features says it all.

So please you aren't fooling anyone.

i never was trying to - what the hell are you even talking about? That really makes me laugh, because you already insinuated that you didn't even believe i was running gnome 3.2 , and for someone who went off about Beryl (a long dead project), tells me that either you have been using Linux for a long time, or are just full of shit (but i am leading towards the latter).

I asked you those questions because it's pretty darn clear that just like anyone would do they would customise their workspace which you have done.

The difference being, that unlike you - as i have said many times - i don't see the point in having multiple tools running to do the exact same job. which you seem to not understand, it's a big caveat if using GS... GS makes sure that in all cases, i am running at least double what i actually need. it's not hard to understand and it's not rocket science, pal.

If you were able to do it then there really isn't a problem with GS now is there?

how stupid of you. I have listed point after point on certain limitations or shotty implementations of tools in GS, none of which you have actually addressed or even seem to understand. my advice, learn to read properly, and actually think about things before you speak.

You don't use it, just like you don't really use the normal panel. You pretty much have proven that you were able to install compiz and everything you wanted. So you are complaining because? Well that's now obvious...because you can.... nothing more.

No. i'm not complaining at all. I'm sorry if that is how you interpret it, but that is not surprising given your trouble in understanding some very basic things, and being dumb re-asserting things that are false (such as comparisions in 'scale'). It's pretty clear that on many fronts, you have no idea what you are talking about. hell, you didn't even know how session files work (which if you've been using linux since beryl days, you probably would have run into especially if running more than one DE at a time. I also have my doubts that you run 15 rdp sessions at a time, i think you just make up shit as you go.)

The rest of what you've written in now moot since you use G3.2 and have no problems using compiz and any other application you would normally use. Case closed.

Bahaha, are you retarded??? I have no problem with Gnome 3.2, and that's not what our conversation was about. we were discussing GS - is this how you win arguments??? by creating a fallacy? lol. how quint

As I said before, most people are complaining to complain. There's very little to most of what's said that is genuine. Does GS have issues? Yup, of course it does. However, that doesn't mean that merely because GS exists that productivity is destroyed. As you have so expertly shown us you are able to create the workspace you wanted and are quite productive. Good job.

Yes, by eliminating GS. and in my case (and other people i know) GS does slow down productivity, and your earlier assertion that because i bring up compiz that i'm not talking about productivity, is retarded because GS/mutter (a composing WM/DE) was designed with productivity and simplicity in mind ~ and yet for some users actually provide neither. So compiz can't be applied to productivity while GS can???? ...when in fact, they are both compositing WMs designed to assist workflow, to a very large degree.

you don't even make sense dude.

[ninez]

Compiz doesn't work without compositing.

Can you not read???? I already covered the fact that compiz doesn't work without compositing. In fact, i specifically said that disabling compiz does not really change my desktop experience. and FYI GS does not work without compositing either. (and before you make some dumb comment on how it does, LLVMpipe is doing compositing - just on the CPU over GPU)The difference - if i disable compositing in GS - i am left with a broken desktop experience. What aren't you understanding??? we've already been over this, bud. how moronic of you.

No it's not because you've pretty much replaced the default workspace in G3.

No it's not, eh???

1. Gnome 3 - provides all of the backend stuff, libs, apps, etc. (for both desktop configurations g3/compiz & GS)
2. GS/Mutter - a compositing WM/DE .... Compiz is also a compositing window manager = they are 'in fact' comparable, dumbass.
3. GS provides a keylauncher - kupfer is also a keylauncher = they are comparable
4. Dash is a quicklauncher / grouping/tabbing dock ... dockbarX/Awn/etc same idea (but better) = they are comparable
5. Activities Overlay provides facility for finding/launching applications ... same goes for 'main-menu' or gnome-pie = comparable
6. Activities/Overlay provides Scale ... which means it can be compared to any WM/OS that also provides this feature

this list could go on, but i think by now - you should get the idea. Notice how in each case GS has it's version of the tool integrated, and in most cases you can't get around that? that means i have to have 2x the tools running with GS, than i would in G2 or G3/classic. What aren't you understanding here. they are completely comparable - and you are silly to argue that they aren't.

that being said, yes i have replaced mutter/gnome-panel/GS with other tools, because GS didn't cut it, and i think installing all of this stuff on top of GS is a waste, as that would make using GS pointless, unless 'bling' is what is more important. These tools are similar (although much better), and to take a page out of your book - they provide 'the same basic functionality' ...

Something you would do even in G2. Just like the installation of AWN I spoke of earlier.

There are huge differences between G2 and Gnome-Shell. G2 never really tried to be all inclusive and integrated, in the way GS does. ...and don't even argue that, one look at 'Activites' and it's features says it all.

So please you aren't fooling anyone.

i never was trying to - what the hell are you even talking about? That really makes me laugh, because you already insinuated that you didn't even believe i was running gnome 3.2 , and for someone who went off about Beryl (a long dead project), tells me that either you have been using Linux for a long time, or are just full of shit (but i am leading towards the latter).

I asked you those questions because it's pretty darn clear that just like anyone would do they would customise their workspace which you have done.

The difference being, that unlike you - as i have said many times - i don't see the point in having multiple tools running to do the exact same job. which you seem to not understand, it's a big caveat if using GS... GS makes sure that in all cases, i am running at least double what i actually need. it's not hard to understand and it's not rocket science, pal.

If you were able to do it then there really isn't a problem with GS now is there?

how stupid of you. I have listed point after point on certain limitations or shotty implementations of tools in GS, none of which you have actually addressed or even seem to understand. my advice, learn to read properly, and actually think about things before you speak.

You don't use it, just like you don't really use the normal panel. You pretty much have proven that you were able to install compiz and everything you wanted. So you are complaining because? Well that's now obvious...because you can.... nothing more.

No. i'm not complaining at all. I'm sorry if that is how you interpret it, but that is not surprising given your trouble in understanding some very basic things, and being dumb re-asserting things that are false (such as comparisions in 'scale'). It's pretty clear that on many fronts, you have no idea what you are talking about. hell, you didn't even know how session files work (which if you've been using linux since beryl days, you probably would have run into especially if running more than one DE at a time. I also have my doubts that you run 15 rdp sessions at a time. you also don't seem very knowledgable, i think you just make up shit as you go.)

The rest of what you've written in now moot since you use G3.2 and have no problems using compiz and any other application you would normally use. Case closed.

Bahaha, are you retarded??? I have no problem with Gnome 3.2, and that's not what our conversation was about. we were discussing GS - is this how you win arguments??? by creating a fallacy? lol. how quaint

As I said before, most people are complaining to complain. There's very little to most of what's said that is genuine. Does GS have issues? Yup, of course it does. However, that doesn't mean that merely because GS exists that productivity is destroyed. As you have so expertly shown us you are able to create the workspace you wanted and are quite productive. Good job.

Yes, by eliminating GS. and in my case (and other people i know) GS does slow down productivity, and your earlier assertion that because i bring up compiz that i'm not talking about productivity, is retarded because GS/mutter (a composing WM/DE) was designed with productivity and simplicity in mind ~ and yet for some users actually provide neither. So compiz can't be applied to productivity while GS can???? ...when in fact, they are both compositing WMs designed to assist workflow, to a very large degree.

"expertly shown us" ???? LOL LOL LOL

i show a few simple 'well-documented' workarounds and you think that's expertly?! really?

that's funny dude.

[kaczu]

Can you not read????

Can you? What's the topic of the thread? It's called "What people are saying about Gnome". That includes everything in it. So if you don't like shell, don't use it. Just like you have. You've maintained your productivity even though your on Gnome 3.2.1, correct? Basically you are complaining about one element in G3, the shell even though you've considerably customised the desktop to suit your needs despite it. Have you not? You would do this in G2 as well, would you not? Then the problem is what? Complaining about software you don't use? How much sense does that make really? If there's anything that's laughable then that would be it in my eyes.

Sometimes when someone asks you a question it's not because they don't know something. They are asking it to see if the person is actually being honest in their critique. I don't believe you were. Considering you wouldn't use gnome-panel if it were there. You would replace the global menu, and install your own launcher. You would install all of the applications you did regardless of the version of Gnome. You've maintained your productivity despite what was in Gnome. Yet here you are complaining about it, even though you use it. I believe you called me stupid and retarded somewhere in your post. Yet, how dumb is it exactly to complain about the replacement of a program that in previous versions you were unlikely to use anyway?

How exactly would anything you've said against Gnome help improve it when most people have problems with GS, which replaced the panel, which you wouldn't have used anyway given your screenshots? Sorry but it seems to me for whatever reason you are joining in complaining about something you had no intention of using in the first place. That to me is quite despicable, as your complaining to complain and not for any positive reason to help the development of a project you use seemingly on a daily basis.

You're basically down to just insults at this point. Anything else productive to say?

[ninez]

Can you? What's the topic of the thread? It's called "What people are saying about Gnome". That includes everything in it. So if you don't like shell, don't use it. Just like you have.

that's funny dude. I am well aware of what the thread is. maybe you should read back. You and i specifically were talking about GS tools vs. alternatives. I had already made my comments about the gnome-stack in general before that - which even you said, was one of the more relevant sensible comments in this thread. it's not a question of liking GS or not, as it is now an (arguably) integral part of the gnome-stack.

You've maintained your productivity even though your on Gnome 3.2.1, correct? Basically you are complaining about one element in G3, the shell even though you've considerably customised the desktop to suit your needs despite it. Have you not?

Yes, but only after ditching the main element of what the Gnome Desktop is all about these days. Gnome Dev's don't support this approach, and if you follow various gnome-related lists - they want everyone to be using GS. and FYI GS is more than 'one element'... it's many elements.

You would do this in G2 as well, would you not? Then the problem is what? Complaining about software you don't use? How much sense does that make really? If there's anything that's laughable then that would be it in my eyes.

Gnome-Shell is an entirely different beast than G2 all together. Your logic is severely flawed. Here is the problem. Gnome Development is gnome-shell centric (ie: they don't want to support setups like mine, really. it's highly discouraged) ~ but gnome-shell seems to not be learning from the well-established tools it seeks to replace, with it's more static tools. If GS was any good (in my personal opinion), i would be happy to use it. But it's not really. What is laughable is your lack of being able to understand this...

Sometimes when someone asks you a question it's not because they don't know something. They are asking it to see if the person is actually being honest in their critique. I don't believe you were. Considering you wouldn't use gnome-panel if it were there. You would replace the global menu, and install your own launcher.

If we are talking about a standard main-menu (like in gnome-panel, not GS), i actually used an applet that provided the same thing for a long time. not only that, but that applet, gnome-pie and even cairo-dock's main-menu are using those menu entries anyway. just a different frontend... so it's pretty much the same thing dude. I don't use gnome-panel because it is a waste of vertical pixel space. (same reason i keep a dock on the side, not top or bottom). sure i could place it on the left, but gnome-panel doesn't play all that nice vertically. But besides all of that, whether or not i am using gnome-panel or not, does not make my critique dishonest. not at all. Again, by all rights - anyone can compare similar tools, and if it turns out one is better, and they choose that tool instead - than the proof is in the pudding. that doesn't make me dishonest, in fact quite the opposite.

You would install all of the applications you did regardless of the version of Gnome. You've maintained your productivity despite what was in Gnome. Yet here you are complaining about it, even though you use it. I believe you called me stupid and retarded somewhere in your post. Yet, how dumb is it exactly to complain about the replacement of a program that in previous versions you were unlikely to use anyway?

you need to learn how to differentiate. Not complaining about Gnome. I've been comparing GS and it's native tools to the similar alternatives.

dash, 'activities' overlay, mutter and all that crap is new to gnome 3 series... and quite frankly, it was thoose integrated tools in GS we were talking about. Again, GS is attempting to replace a plethera of BETTER tools, with it's own sub-standard ones. So the real question is how dumb is it to write what you have written above?? (extremely fucking dumb!) ...and i do use GS here and there, and will continue to monitor it's progress. I just don't use it for day to day stuff - it's not good enough for that.

How exactly would anything you've said against Gnome help improve it when most people have problems with GS, which replaced the panel, which you wouldn't have used anyway given your screenshots?

For one, Gnome could take a serious look at how other docks, launchers, etc do things... and make their tools closer to actually being equal to the alternatives -> before making them statically apart of the desktop. (which is too late). So instead they should work to make them have a little more juice/functionality, similar to the other options. Second, maybe they should reconsider this idea that people shouldn't have granular control of many things, such as ccsm provides for compiz users. maybe they should re-evaluate and have these setting tunable during runtime, rather than being hidden away in js files. GS replaces a lot more than gnome-panel, which we've already been over. ..and you know this, right? as far as i know (joke) gnome-panel was not a compositor, nor a dock, nor a keylauncher.... again, can you not read or something? (and you wonder why i might get the impression that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed).

Sorry but it seems to me for whatever reason you are joining in complaining about something you had no intention of using in the first place. That to me is quite despicable, as your complaining to complain and not for any positive reason to help the development of a project you use seemingly on a daily basis.

erm, i first started looking at GS, years ago when it was built on gnome2. I also had GS/G3 installed way before it's official release for testing purposes. I gaver feedback. i also have contributed to the gnome project through both bug reporting and fixing the gnome-tweak-tool 'welcome' icon (the original .png was not created using a proper alpha channel, and looked horrible if using any theme/color but Adwaita - and that wasn't commited to GIT until after the official release). I also maintain 2 gtk3/gtk2/metacity themes and was also able to get a fix in for the 'charactor map' application as it had it's colors tied in in such a way - that it wasn't read able for many dark gtk3 themes..

have you contributed anything at all??? .... ever?

You're basically down to just insults at this point. Anything else productive to say?

3 or 4 insults doesn't constitute 'basically down to just insults'. and they only came about through the sheer stupidity of your comments - It's not my fault that the rest of what i wrote, either went orver your head, or you just don't seem to understand the differences at all. As far as something productive to say, go back to school, read more, educate yourself, don't make claims that are false, and think by re-asserting them over and over again, that they are true. don't lie about your desktop usage - don't insinuate that someone else is lying - when they can easily post a screenshot... and come back and talk to me then...

cheerz!

[kaczu]

3 or 4 insults doesn't constitute 'basically down to just insults'. <snip> blah blah blah

cheerz!

LOL cool looks like your done. Was wondering how long that was going to take. Cheerz

[ninez]

LOL cool looks like your done. Was wondering how long that was going to take. Cheerz

Dude, you never addressed anything that was actually said, in many of my post that were quite relevant. instead you took the route of aviodance, and illogical statements, and fallacies. I may be done, but you never even got started, bud.

and in case you didn't notice - NONE of your statements contribute anything to the betterment of gnome, accept verifying my 1st comment in this thread about nautilus needing a little love. i assume you've also never contributed anything, by your lack of response too. (possibly not to any FOSS project, im guessing.) ...and you're going to get on my case about this stuff. Hilarious! Atleast some of mine, whether you like them or not, are actually food for thought. Some of which lots of users want to see.

You also 'took the bait' - i know if it was insinuated that i was a liar (which i was, by you), i would post a screenshot or two to prove otherwise. -> where is your magic screenshot of you showing your 15 Simultaneous running RDP windows, and other apps running? - i call bullshit! (mainly because i work in IT, and you would be hardpressed to convince me that you need that many running at the same time). where is your valid argument that G3/compiz is not comparable to G3/GS?? oh that's right, you just keep asserting they are not comparable. Where is your valid argument that can completely dismiss the idea, that from some users perspectives, there is no need to have 2-3 tools to do the same job? that's right, you don't have a good one.

You've got nothing to say at all. plain as day. bye bye

[kaczu]

You've got nothing to say at all. plain as day. bye bye

You said bye bye before didn't you? Once insults start flying I see no reason to address anything you've said. If you were actually interested in discussing the topic you would have avoided that. Plain and simple. If you can't discuss things like an adult, I see no reason to take the time to go over your responses. Sorry

[ninez]

You said bye bye before didn't you? Once insults start flying I see no reason to address anything you've said. If you were actually interested in discussing the topic you would have avoided that. Plain and simple. If you can't discuss things like an adult, I see no reason to take the time to go over your responses. Sorry

said bye before, nope. don't think so. ...and regardless, if you reply, obviously i will respond (whether i have been insulted or not!)

No reason to address anything i've said...ha! That is a cop-out. You don't wish to continue the conversation, because you so far have had very little to almost nothing to offer, and have been simply wrong about a great many things, that were discussed, in the first place. you just kept re-asserting things, without any added explanation or detail. -> while at the same time giving me shit, even though it would seem i have actually contributed more than you have. You cry like a little baby over an insult or two - yet you insinuated that i was lying about using gnome 3.2. (Which FYI - is insulting, ya dick! that was even before i insulted you). quite frankly, an off the cuff insult, really isn't a big deal, in comparison.

You haven't been addressing things right from the get go, and now you simply can't. so instead, you are just making little excuses. straight up. nice try, though.

[kaczu]

That is a cop-out. You don't wish to continue the conversation, because you so far have had very little to almost nothing to offer, and have been simply wrong about a great many things, that were discussed, in the first place. you just kept re-asserting things, without any added explanation or detail. - while at the same time giving me shit, even though it would seem i have actually contributed more than you have. You cry like a little baby over an insult or two - yet you insinuated that i was lying about using gnome 3.2. (even before i insulted you). quite frankly, an off the cuff insult, really isn't a big deal, in comparison.

You haven't been addressing things right from the get go, and now you simply can't. so instead, you are just making excuses. straight up. nice try, though.

Still at it huh?

I mean why would I discuss something with someone who can't even remember what they said only a post ago?

said bye before, nope. don't think so. ...and regardless, if you reply, obviously i will respond (whether i have been insulted or not!)

and the post before?

plain as day. bye bye

Now if you can't even be truthful with yourself. How in the world can I possibly take you seriously? I would be having a discussion with someone for no real reason at all. Sorry but I don't believe in spending large amounts of time having a futile discussion with someone. I would have wasted huge amounts of time responding to each point for no real reason at all. We would get absolutely no where. You can call it a "cop out" or whatever, but I don't believe in arguing just to argue.