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Coreboot Finally Takes The Interest Of OEMs

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  • #21
    It surprises me that virtually no-one in the open source community has protested against (u)EFI.

    First of all, let me explain briefly what it is. EFI is not a replacement of BIOS, but an BIOS with extra features. The main feature is that hardware has their firmware extensions, so should (in theory) be easier and quicker to write drivers for multiple CPU architectures and different operating systems, handy for servers and workstations for instance. EFI has a small core which runs below the OS kernel, and controls all I/O and resources, the OS kernel is not aware if EFI has interfered.

    What bothers me is that EFI has recently been marketed for a nice GUI, quicker boot time, larger harddrives, removal of legacy features and such, but almost never for it's real benefits. The extensible firmware is not very relevant for consumers anyway, it will take a very long time before hardware drivers will utilize this, if they ever will. (For instance, I don't see nVidia tossing away their universal driver architecture for a new one when they have basically already achieved this.) Support for larger harddrives can be solved by adding support for a new MBR with a larger LBA, no need for adjusting the sector size. Unused legacy features is no real problem. In fact, the GUI and boot and POST time has nothing to do with EFI itself, it seems like companies are just using this to push a new piece of software we consumers don't really need. Why are they doing this, is it just marketing or is it something more? I don't know their intentions.

    My issues with (u)EFI of course that it's proprietary, but it's also the following issues(mostly security):
    * EFI can control your entire computer without you knowing it, it can communicate with the world without your permission. I'm not saying governments or companies will use this features, but it is technical possible within the specifications. The community keeps nagging people for using proprietary software like the nVidia blob, while real big issues like EFI is hardly ever mentioned. Using a proprietary driver or piece of software(if it supports open formats) does not rob your freedom, but letting others control potentially your computer is definitely giving up your freedom. Let me emphasize, it's very unlikely that anyone will take over your computer, but the principle is the important thing here. Anyway, at best EFI will drain a little of your computer's resources.
    * On x86, EFI has a security vulnerability when switching from 32-bit pmode to 64-bit pmode through real mode, and the other way around, because when switching mode anything can be injected to RAM, and the EFI image has to be stored in "unallocated RAM" for a moment. In order to solve this, x86 has to be redesigned and break backward compatibility. This issue should only be a problem when EFI starts in one mode and boots an OS in another mode, if both are in the same mode this issue should not be a problem. But at least older EFI usually boots in 32-bit pmode, and most people use 64-bit OS today.
    * EFI requires the EFI loader to be in the ugly proprietary PE-format.

    This is why alternatives like coreboot is so important, to me it seems like the only free way to use a PC in the close future.

    I would love being able to buy a motherboard shipping with coreboot.

    You might ask why I know this, well I was writing my own boot loader and a very simple kernel some years ago, so I'm familiar with how x86 boot strapping works. I also spent some weeks researching EFI and starting writing an EFI loader for XP, you might remember the competition a while back? (None of this work of mine ever got finished.) But feel free to explain more of these issues above, some of you guys might have way more experience than me. If you don't take my word, feel free to read the entire specifications for EFI/uEFI.

    Like V!NCENT said, the BIOS still runs after boot, and interrupts go through there. It's a myth that BIOS is no longer in use.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by srg_13 View Post
      Why would Windows 8 only support Macs, some servers and the small percentage of computers (probably less than 10 or 20%) that support UEFI?

      That makes about as much sense as the rumours a few years ago that Windows 7 would only support x86_64.
      Simple, 90% of people will be buying a new machine to get Win8, very few people buy a retail copy of windows.

      It was actually a shame that Win7 didn't force 64 bit, since the only hardware around the time that didn't do 64 bit was Intel's firs gen Core series chips and the Atoms which are too slow to really handle Win7 anyways.

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      • #23
        for everyone who replied to my comment, i'm actually glad you did. i've heard of coreboot but i've never attempted to use it (for the very reasons i specified, and the fact that i don't have a computer supported by it). due to those replies, it makes a lot of sense to me now why someone would want it, and with the perspective i was taking it makes sense why people (such as myself) wouldn't want it.

        however, like i stated in my previous post, BIOSes that are notably crappy (meaning, missing features, features that don't work, poor navigation, or potentially causes problems) should definitely be replaced with coreboot. but in my gaming computer, that uses a gigabyte motherboard and as michael posted, gigabyte is a contributor to coreboot. this mobo i have has more features than any other non-efi board i have ever used, and i've seen the BIOSes of hundreds of boards ranging between $30-$300. its boards like this where even with the benefits of coreboot, i see no reason to put it on there. on my linux-only system, i would gladly put coreboot on it if it would work on it - the bios in that has nice features but half of them don't even work.

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        • #24
          Open Source EFI

          Originally posted by Nogotheg View Post
          Will it be able to boot f.ex. Windows 8 which is rumoured to only support UEFI? Can coreboot simply fake that or are there other possibilities?
          FOSS EFI implementation:


          Coreboon and Tianocore seem to collaborate ? to a degree at least. See http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawik...ks_to_coreboot

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          • #25
            So... some OEM is going to use coreboot on their board.... that would be nice, if you'd bother saying WHICH ONE!!!!!!

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            • #26
              Originally posted by efikkan View Post
              * EFI can control your entire computer without you knowing it, it can communicate with the world without your permission. I'm not saying governments or companies will use this features, but it is technical possible within the specifications.
              AFAIK, it's possible for a legacy BIOS to control your computer without your knowledge, too (and has been for some time). I think the problem here is System Management Mode in general, not anything specific to EFI.

              * EFI requires the EFI loader to be in the ugly proprietary PE-format.
              I'm not sure the PE format is proprietary in any meaningful sense. Sure, MS has some level of authority over it, but it's quite easy to generate a PE file without touching any Microsoft code, the specification is available, it's not generally known to have patents covering it (AFAICT), and MS isn't in a position to just drop support for existing files/behavior (except maybe on ARM).

              Originally posted by droidhacker
              So... some OEM is going to use coreboot on their board.... that would be nice, if you'd bother saying WHICH ONE!!!!!!
              I was looking for that too, but I assumed that he was asked not to.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                So... some OEM is going to use coreboot on their board.... that would be nice, if you'd bother saying WHICH ONE!!!!!!
                they mentioned Gigabyte. So yes I would be glad to buy a Board with Coreboot on it, which can get used with current Mass Market Prozessors. Or I would flash it, If I dont need extra Hardware or have to solder around to get a chip away or on the board.

                Right now there are now new interesting Boards that are supported by coreboot, so I hope really that that changes this year, first vendor who places such products in the market will be the opensource-favored oem-vendor for the year or even longer

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                  they mentioned Gigabyte. So yes I would be glad to buy a Board with Coreboot on it, which can get used with current Mass Market Prozessors. Or I would flash it, If I dont need extra Hardware or have to solder around to get a chip away or on the board.

                  Right now there are now new interesting Boards that are supported by coreboot, so I hope really that that changes this year, first vendor who places such products in the market will be the opensource-favored oem-vendor for the year or even longer
                  They did NOT say anything related to gigabyte actually putting coreboot on one of their boards... simply that gigabyte has, LIKE MANY OTHERS, contributed a small part to it.

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                  • #29
                    Regular BIOSes have remote management as well

                    What some of you are worried about is available on newer Intel boards- it's advertised as AMT, and lets you exercise some manner of control over a networked PC with the technology available.

                    There was a just-merged staging driver for it (a previous version was canned in 2.6.32 I believe). Here's a link to the driver documentation: MEI Driver documentations
                    The Intel Management Engine listed there is also responsible for other things, like handling access to different BIOS/chipset regions.

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                    • #30
                      If Coreboot is lightweight and awesome, yet lacking in some features, maybe netbooks would be a great place for coreboot to begin gaining prominence among OEMs.

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