Linux 6.9 Set To Drop The Old NTFS File-System Driver

[mercster]

If you are s Linux user, there really isn't any reason to use NTFS at all. The edge case I suppose is portable drives. I normally format them to to ext4 and call it good. Thumb drives I leave alone as the wife occasionally likes to load up some pictures to get printed. So good to have 'some' M$ disk format support.

No problem here with the drop.

Oh ye of little imagination.

[avis]

Not everyone shares your laissez faire "There's no such thing as unethical business practices"-attitude. Some of us have moral compasses and if you don't like that we express views based on this, then you probably ought to get off the internet. There's always going to be people who disagree with you. Deal with it or leave.

And food doesn't put itself on the table. I don't care about your "software ideals" (most ideals are irrational), the Open Source movement has consusively proven that financially it does not work, period. And when and if it doesn't nothing gets done. Linux lovers in general do not pay for Open Source, they do not donate and they expect to get everything for free. Too bad not that many people are interested in working hard for free and otherwise you won't get a solid product with decent support. Linux has largely existed as a byproduct of RedHat and large companies using Linux in their infrastructure.

Disagreeing means having a valid opinion but guess what this opinion is invalid. The world has gone mad in allowing people to opine about everything even if their opinion is asinine or even dangerous.

Your "moral compass" (whoa, that sounded so haughty) is 100% bankrupt when it comes to people earning their living.

I don't like people lying to themselves and others. There's been too many lies recently.

It's not the first topic where you're disagreeing with people putting food on the table. I wonder if you've ever followed your own advice and done something for free. Something which is akin to a full time job for months/years. How did it work for you? Oh, wait, I'm sure you never even attempted to work for free. So full of <>.

You may love Open Source all you want. That doesn't mean Open Source can work the way you want it to work and it certainly doesn't. In the topic about VVC you were so wound up about how horrible VVC was in principle but you never admitted that AV1 had handsomely been paid for by Google to serve Google's own needs. They didn't give a damn about "Open Source", "freedom" or "patents". They didn't want to license HEVC or VVC and instead chose to invest into something different which would work for them.

Show me a single fucking video codec entirely created for free by some genius? What, there's not a single one?
What about filesystems? Oh, wait, not a single modern full-featured FS has been created this way either.
Maybe we have complex Open Source products just because someone had an itch to create them in their spare time? I don't know a single one other than chess engines which are absolutely niche.

Show me a proof that anything complex can be created as Open Source/being patent free for free.

Lastly you, like many people on Phoronix, are obsessed with me personally which shows not only that you don't actually have a moral compass, it shows how morally bankrupt you are if you cannot argue without ad hominem. What a disgrace. FFS. I feel like I'm about to vomit from your overt and inane rightnessness.

[mercster]

Blah blah blah blah

Tripe.

[mackal]

This is right, the NTFS3 driver still does not fully support NTFS journaling, i.e. if you lose power to a mounted disk, there's a good chance you'll have corruption that can only fully be clearned by a Windows rescue disk or some such. Happened to me one too many times.

When I had issues, I was ejecting my thumb drive after deleting shit and copying new files over. The eject process returned some error and the device was gone, everything was messed up when I tried to mount it again. I've been just using NTFS-3G personally :P although, that thumb drive is the only thing that is NTFS now ... well, and the windows partitions but I haven't touched those in a long time :P

[mercster]

When I had issues, I was ejecting my thumb drive after deleting shit and copying new files over. The eject process returned some error and the device was gone, everything was messed up when I tried to mount it again. I've been just using NTFS-3G personally :P although, that thumb drive is the only thing that is NTFS now ... well, and the windows partitions but I haven't touched those in a long time :P

Nod... I was using it on HDDs, a power outage/unclean mount was likely to corrupt something, leaving inconsistencies. There's a `ntfsfix` hack that can get the thing mounted again, but the filesystem needs an actual run of chkdsk to recover lost data.

[F.Ultra]

Fat32 has been royalty-free for ages. At least get your facts straight.

And it would be nice to get up to date info on exfat licensing because I've not heard about that for many years now.

And I don't understand why you dislike their choice to create software products and sell them. They wouldn't have been a 2 trillion company giving out stuff for free.

It's not about being against companies selling software, it's about being against software patents (which for exfat, Microsoft gave away to OIN in 2019).

And like all software patents the exfat one is silly beyond comprehension, it just describes a method of first converting the filename to upper case and then creating a 16-bit hash of that converted filename and how this then can be used to "efficiently lookup the file before performing a full string compare of the actual filename".

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090164440?oq=US2009164440

[avis]

It's not about being against companies selling software, it's about being against software patents (which for exfat, Microsoft gave away to OIN in 2019).

And like all software patents the exfat one is silly beyond comprehension, it just describes a method of first converting the filename to upper case and then creating a 16-bit hash of that converted filename and how this then can be used to "efficiently lookup the file before performing a full string compare of the actual filename".

https://patents.google.com/patent/US...q=US2009164440

I neither condone nor contemn software patents. I'd call them a necessary evil.

Speaking of this particular patent: the way you describe it sounds quite dumb to me and it looks like you can implement exfat file lookups without employing/using this method. At the same time there are truly ingenious computing methods to speed up things enormously or achieve goals in very non-obvious ways. Again, I have to admit I don't fully understand what it's about.

Why do real life inventions get patent protection, but software methods cannot? That's a really murky topic to me. Yes, I also believe that software methods are akin to mathematics and in many countries of the world you cannot patent software. TBO I just have no clue how to resolve this conundrum.

It sounds more like a societal issue (I'm talking about laws and economics), than a patent issue. But damn, some stuff, e.g. drugs take hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and companies need ways to protect and recoup their investment, otherwise no one will develop anything. How will you go about financing this research? And, oh boy, it's risky as hell, a ton of stuff very talented people work on for years and if not decades bears no fruit for companies funding this research which means that actual useful invented stuff is even more crucial and expensive.

[LinAGKar]

and the NTFS3 driver working out well

Not how I would see it, since the corruption issue I had (https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1198669) is still unaddressed almost two years later. So I'm staying away from ntfs3.

[computeruser1234]

Not how I would see it, since the corruption issue I had (https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1198669) is still unaddressed almost two years later. So I'm staying away from ntfs3.

I agree. There's several other issues out there that I'm not aware of being fixed yet. This thread is the first time I've come across positive comments on ntfs3. I will avoid it for now in favor of the stability of ntfs-3g.

[F.Ultra]

I neither condone nor contemn software patents. I'd call them a necessary evil.

Speaking of this particular patent: the way you describe it sounds quite dumb to me and it looks like you can implement exfat file lookups without employing/using this method. At the same time there are truly ingenious computing methods to speed up things enormously or achieve goals in very non-obvious ways. Again, I have to admit I don't fully understand what it's about.

Why do real life inventions get patent protection, but software methods cannot? That's a really murky topic to me. Yes, I also believe that software methods are akin to mathematics and in many countries of the world you cannot patent software. TBO I just have no clue how to resolve this conundrum.

It sounds more like a societal issue (I'm talking about laws and economics), than a patent issue. But damn, some stuff, e.g. drugs take hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and companies need ways to protect and recoup their investment, otherwise no one will develop anything. How will you go about financing this research? And, oh boy, it's risky as hell, a ton of stuff very talented people work on for years and if not decades bears no fruit for companies funding this research which means that actual useful invented stuff is even more crucial and expensive.

Being against software patents does not automatically make you be against say drug patents. What makes software patents different (and why we don't need them) is first that we already have copyright as protection and secondly that there are extremely few cases of "we did this method in software" that is non-obvious to the average programmer when presented with the same problem, which is why all the software patents are so extremely silly as they are.

The third problem is that software is a too fast evolving platform to have road blocks like patents and their 25 year expiry, for drugs and industry 25 years is basically nothing but for computers it's the difference between the era of the 80286 and the Core2 Quad which is an insane range.