Uutils 0.0.24 Advances Rust-Written Coreutils Implementation

[kloczek]

no idea what you are trying to imply with the page cache comment, I ran applications until I oom triggered or crash, if I don't oom or crash, and my performance doesn't degrade, that's all I care about, I don't care about some stupid number on paper, I care about something actually working for what I need it to.

All sentences wit questions marks at the end are not implications but questions.
Do you want to me to repeat the question about RAM usage?

[ssokolow]

Again: separation on VFS layer can be done without any user space prosthetics which is possible to overcome as everything is working in the same process space.


Of course it can. Using exact DSOs can be done even on old Solaris 7 with only ld,so abilities in which configuration on execute exact binary you can be used DSO from completly different location. Look on clre man page https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E88353_01...#REFMAN1crle-1

You're still missing the point. This isn't about the underlying technology used for isolation, but the technology for identifying what configuration to feed to the isolation system.

I don't see that. Please point on exact python PEP spec about that.

Why would there be a PEP spec?

The "where libraries go to die" is something that "everyone knows" when talking about how demotivating the standard library's API stability requirements are as observed from how libraries freeze solid and stop receiving feature updates when they get into it and the developers' own accounts of why.

The urllib, urllib2, etc. thing is evident from looking at the Python 2.x standard library docs (PEP 3000 would be what merged or deleted a lot of that stuff), the Requests/Twisted part is what you'll get in any support forum or chat channel when asking for help with the standard library equivalents, and the part about urllib3 is somewhere in the Requests docs, though I don't have time to dig it up right now.

[ssokolow]

BTW. twisted module is not part of the standard python modules.
Seems you do not understand that some pypi modules interfaces are time to time deprecated and it is normal part of the code evolution and has nothing to do with python standard modules.

I know. I'm saying that, for the last 20 years that I've been using Python, I've seen again and again, that, if someone asked for help with things like SimpleHTTPServer or asyncore or any other network-related thing in the standard library, they'd be told "Don't use the standard library. The standard library implementation is unfixable. Use Twisted instead."

[kloczek]

LetsBeRealAboutDependencies

TL;DR: Those dependencies are typically equivalent to code that's either rewritten from scratch in each C project or copied-and-pasted in or part of one giant dependency that you only wind up using part of. For example, stuff like argument parsing, which, in C, you'd probably either rewrite based around the minimal functionality provided by getopt(3) (getopt(3) being minimal enough that I have approximated it in Rust with a single match statement inside a for loop in a project where resistance to supply chain attacks was paramount) or vendor something like https://www.argtable.org/

Please use any example project and show such c&p examples of code.
Second thig: wy with all those dependencies size of the executable or DSO is ALWAYS FEW times bigger?

Flatpak uses that separated design (download phase without running code, build phase without network access) and there's a tool named flatpak-cargo-generator for generating Flatpak manifests from Cargo.lock files, similar to how there are such tools for other things like Python PyPI dependency lists.

As it is user space it gives only IMPRSION of the isolation
And again: more than two decades are available Solaris isolation which do not require any isolated code isolation (libporta/lisecomp) or separated system image.
All can be done as configuration done over kernel layer which is not possible (as long as in the kernel code there is no bugs) o bend.

[kloczek]

Why would there be a PEP spec?

Because standard python modules are usually defined/changed as PEPs.

[ssokolow]

Please use any example project and show such c&p examples of code.

The page I linked gives direct examples in the "Gotta Go Deeper" section but I can't quote the passage here because the site's intrusion detection system mistakes it for an attempt at some kind of XSS injection and gives me an error 403.

I'm pretty sure I also mentioned libraries like argtable, which would horrify Rust developers if proposed, because they're such an egregious admission that C and C++ have no package management.

Second thig: wy with all those dependencies size of the executable or DSO is ALWAYS FEW times bigger?

Probably because turning on automatic stripping of the debug symbols from the prebuilt "optimizations plus debug symbols" standard library fell through the cracks until a little while ago and hasn't landed in stable channel yet.

As it is user space it gives only IMPRSION of the isolation

Then set a --filesystem=host override. It'll still use the /usr from the runtime package because that's part of how it works, but you can get the host's /usr at /var/run/host/usr

And again: more than two decades are available Solaris isolation which do not require any isolated code isolation (libporta/lisecomp) or separated system image.
All can be done as configuration done over kernel layer which is not possible (as long as in the kernel code there is no bugs) o bend.

That may be so... but Flatpak is "You spent 20 years telling us to just give you a little more time. Now we're fixing it." in code form. It's literally an "If you don't like it, make something better. We'll use it until you're ready." shot across the bow.

Or, to put it another way, it's the packaging equivalent of how I'll hack around brokenness in my apps because I need a working desktop today, not in six months.

[ssokolow]

Because standard python modules are usually defined/changed as PEPs.

Ahh, then it'd be PEP 3000 you want. The master PEP for all the changes made when going from Python 2.x to 3.x.

[pabloski]

the anti-Rust fanboys heads will explode https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/...st_developers/