Linus Torvalds Comments On Bcachefs Prospects For Linux 6.6

[ElectricPrism]

After discussing this with an associate they brought up some interesting comparisons to Terry A Davis when he created LoseThos having trouble communicating and handling criticisms and eventually arguing and becoming banned at various places.

Kernel like anything else has certain formalities defined or unspoken.

Formalities that some people are going to have trouble navigating.

[xhustler]

There are a number of reason why the current tried and tested workflows are in place for contributing to the Linux kernel. If contributors can't follow the basics workflow tasks and are relying on a "hook up from my buddy Linus", then their wares should stay out of the mainline kernel tree.

[sdack]

I love Torvald's comment. It shows how far Linux has come. It is not just some geek project developed in basements like it was in the early days. Torvald has matured himself. Coding is not just about one man (or woman) against the rest of the world. It is something that should be shared and done together with others. Nor is it about creating the perfect code by any means necessary, but it can be more than this. Working together to create the best code possible, being at one's best, putting one's ego second for the greater good, and thereby making friendships along the way is a way of life. Hats off!

[ClosedSource]

Is it production quality yet? Otherwise it might be best to wait. Even ksmbd still needs proofing and it's been mainlined for some time now.

[avis]

Not gonna be merged in 6.6, maybe in 6.7 or 6.8.

It really had to be submitted to Linux next first. It's a simple rule.

[Khrundel]

Well, all this makes me worry about the future of kernel. I don't believe Kent is some dumb student who do not understand the basics, at least his previous work, bcache is within kernel and somehow it had been merged. So either all these procedures are new or not so obligatory. All this "you think you are special" grunt reminds of Linus' age. He believes his old trusted lieutenants, and his lieutenant cares only about proper bureaucratic procedure and usage of iomap. Same lieutenant by the way, who've merged into 6.6 a code, sole purpose of which is to break nvidia driver. You can break userspace in case you are one of maintainers, and maybe you can do so even without going through linux-next branch.

[lowflyer]

Bca chefs ... to take up the kitchen/cooking analogy again:

Some chefs are absolutely brilliant - but really difficult to work with - and that's in part why they are so brilliant.

[grigi]

I've worked with people whom become passive-aggressive when they feel threatened, and I have to say, if there is a single thing that is completely unacceptable, its being passive-aggressive in defense. Nothing quite like it to get peoples hairs to stand on end.

We've let people go solely because they just couldn't stop being passive-aggressive. No matter how good they are, it seriously increases friction and reduces morale.

An analogy:
If you shout and swear at me, that's an lightning strike.
If you passive-aggressive at me, that's a volcano rumbling as it's building up pressure.

The latter is significantly more worrisome as it's a potentially huge disaster at an indeterminate future.

[Veto]

Even if you are some kind of genius coding god, you need to be able work in a team - or do your own kernel.

From the comments in here, it seems the importance of being able to achieve and sustain greatness as a team is still a foreign concept for many people...

[curfew]

It'll very likely be merged eventually. Kent's attitude is for the most part fine, I'm not sure why some people treat him the way they do. If you read through the mailing list he is very much open to feedback, whenever someone actually questions and provides specific details on doubts on technical details, he seems very much open to change. Whenever things get heated is when someone refuses to provide specific details on what they don't like about bcachefs.

This thread comes to mind: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/2023081...oria.home.lan/

One of the main maintainers has concerns, doesn't state what his concerns are and Kent even setup two meetings for him to discuss them and the maintainer in question didn't even show up for either of them.

I didn't bother even reading through the first message let alone the whole thread, but I can't say that Kent appears "fine" when he even started moaning about a suggestion to postpone the merge until November and Linux 6.7. That, to me, sounds completely reasonable especially when the maintainers stated they want to wait some other important patch to land first, and since Bcachefs patches include changes to the kernel as well and aren't just about an isolated filesystem module.