New Linux Kernel Code Works On APIC "Decrapification", Suggests Dropping x86 32-bit

[MorrisS.]

Hey Linus how about you drop PS/2 keyboard and VGA framebuffer drivers, isn't that like old and no good? They always pick on 32-bit x86 people or remove scrollback from VT console.

to compare 32bit to PS/2 devices is not so much smart. Indeed, PS/2 devices are 64bit compliant. PS/2 devices provides some benefits to USB devices.... in any case, even if PS/2 devices would not receive support USB input devices can replace them... in any case a pure 64bit system allows to save time and memory. 32bit is useless. To make useless actions is a waste of time taken away from other activities.

[Ironmask]

to compare 32bit to PS/2 devices is not so much smart. Indeed, PS/2 devices are 64bit compliant. PS/2 devices provides some benefits to USB devices.... in any case, even if PS/2 devices would not receive support USB input devices can replace them... in any case a pure 64bit system allows to save time and memory. 32bit is useless. To make useless actions is a waste of time taken away from other activities.

In fact PS/2 is pretty much just emulated over USB these days, so there's not much point to it.
You still need to write code for it since the hardware is still pretending it's PS/2 (it's not, and the reason you know is because you would need to restart the computer when you unplugged a PS/2 device), but under the hood (even to the OS) it's just USB.

[MorrisS.]

In fact PS/2 is pretty much just emulated over USB these days, so there's not much point to it.
You still need to write code for it since the hardware is still pretending it's PS/2 (it's not, and the reason you know is because you would need to restart the computer when you unplugged a PS/2 device), but under the hood (even to the OS) it's just USB.

PS/2 input devices don't need so much code... once made it some maintenance is enough. PS/2 technology is not so complicated and doesn't ask for much development. On the opposite 32 bit is a whole platform, an obsolete useless platform architecture that involves much more energy. The Increasing in efficiency of linux operating systems is the priority of every users and developers. Yeah I like HDD and I use HDDs, but I prefer SSD technology.

[bofkentucky]

Indeed. And I see the issue, modern amd64, due to its popularity has continuously had to work around some of the old crusty stuff as it evolves. As x86_64 keeps getting worked on, this will take it further and further away from the initial x86 tech.

It just seems ironic that less popular (almost unused today) architectures (sparc, apple_ppc) ends up having a better lifespan.

It is a similar phenomenon to lots of distros dropping x86 but working very hard to support aarch64, even though very few open aarch64 devices actually exist in the wild to install Linux on in the first place.

When I tell my bosses I can shave ~30% off our aws compute bill (and another ~20% for our databases) by switching to aarch64 ears perk up in a hurry.

[gotar]

We don't need to throw away perfectly working hardware just because Intel is to lazy to support their own mess.

Intel has a business (real $$$) in obsoleting hardware.

And your adversaries still ignore the existence of IoT-like controllers and various embedded appliances, where newer kernels are required for newer features utilized e.g. by systemd.


Just to have some time-scale right: I use:
- 5-year old hardware in high-demand servers (Supermicro X11 boards still in stock, e.g. I've recently bought some X11-DPL with 2*Xeon scalable v1; 2*20 cores, 2*40 threads),
- 7-12 year old hardware as office desktops (running mostly browser) and thin clients.

Therefore 15-20 year old hw is perfectly capable of handling my doorbell (if it's enough to run some space vehicles).

Of course most vendors won't provide any updates (Arris D5 QAM modulator - it's about 10 years old and runs kernel 2.6.18... among VxWorks), but there are various in-house projects with very-long-time support, other hardware can be often reused.


And this is exactly why obsoleting hardware at all is hard.
OTOH reducing "some" features, like performance (SMP-only) is easier, as the common set of "need new kernel" and "need performance" is significally smaller.

[Anux]

Intel has a business (real $$$) in obsoleting hardware.

I know why Intel doesn't care and that's fine by me, I don't have to buy their hardware. I was just amazed by all those fanboys that praise the planned obsolescence and pollution of the environment by Intel and want free software to take part in it.

reducing "some" features, like performance (SMP-only) is easier, as the common set of "need new kernel" and "need performance" is significally smaller.

Right, we regulary reduce the performance of fairly new CPUs (mittigations) and as long as those CPUs don't become unusable a little perf drop is bearable.

[Democrab]

Even as a retro gamer I think this is a good idea; there's already a significant amount of compatibility work required to make older programs and games run on modern systems especially in areas like sound which are already not particularly compatible OOTB these days. I'd even go as far as saying we should really have some more separation between the legacy IBM PC compat platform and the modern PC platform which is somewhat but not entirely compatible with the IBM PC largely thanks to emulation.

For others who are interested in retro PC games it's also not anywhere nearly as hard to obtain retro hardware as some people make it out to be, at least for most markets, as it's entirely a used market you can't easily get a load of decent pricing data nor can you guarantee availability of certain parts like you can with brand new parts but generally if you keep an eye on the relevant channels you'll be able to build a retro PC with interesting specs pretty quickly for good prices unless you're hell-bent on getting a 3DFX graphics card or something. The actual issue with retro hardware is the maintenance side of things, for example the DFI LanParty UT NF3-250Gb that I brought at a PC store closing-down sale last week has bulging VRM caps which will require manual replacement despite the motherboard still being brand-new in box...for ~20 years.