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Rust For The Linux Kernel Sent Out For Review A Fourth Time
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Originally posted by Volta View Post
That's something new! The most advanced and successful operating system kernels are written in C. Probably the most advanced data base is written in C. Automotive industry (and any other serious industry) depends on C.
And other langs like Java, Python etc. are just not sensible option for some tasks, you just didn't have before Rust a choice if you need a lang with is compiled without a GC.
Also, I completely don't get how the whole "C is more successful" is an argument here, you are comparing a language with had ~40 years of time to adopt on the market vs ~10 years. Of course at this point in time C will be more "successful", that doesn't mean in 30 years Rust can be at this point now C is and even beyond that.
How is this even an argument? Man, it is like saying that fuel powered cars are more "successful" then electric because we used them over 100 years and electric cars are only recent getting tracking. HOW IS THAT EVEN AN ARGUMENT?!
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Originally posted by Volta View Post
I bet it's not C fault, but some developer. It's quite hard language, but very powerful one.
I mean, programming languages are as insecure or secure as much as the developer themselves. If Rust provides a good framework, there will be less bugs just because it's harder for issues to sneak in (but not impossible). C just allows way too many to sneak in and that's the main issue with it.Last edited by akira128; 13 February 2022, 08:18 AM.
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Originally posted by betty567 View PostRust is an attempt to bolt low level features onto a high level language, and it has never been successful, nor will it be.
Both are an attempt to make programming "easier" for people that cannot handle true low level programming.
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Originally posted by Volta View Post
That's something new! The most advanced and successful operating system kernels are written in C. Probably the most advanced data base is written in C. Automotive industry (and any other serious industry) depends on C.
Languages like Haskell are also used a lot in defense, at least when you don't need real time guarantees. And in any system that is really mission critical, even if it is written in C they use theorem proves like Coq or Isabell where as Rust already has the theorem prover built into the language.
Originally posted by betty567 View Post
Then why don't you explain it all to us, Smitty?Last edited by mdedetrich; 13 February 2022, 08:14 AM.
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Originally posted by Volta View Post
Can you show us how successful the Rust is? I'm not against it, but I'm trying to figure out on what basis some people formulate their claims.
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Originally posted by betty567 View PostC is excellent for an OS kernel because memory management is 100% up to the developer. You decide your own allocation strategy, you decide when and how to initialize memory, your own re-use strategy, and you decide when to free memory.
There are no features that must be abstained from when doing low-level things, there is no "unsafe" portion of the language that one must rely exclusively on in these low-level scenarios.
No "garbage collection", which is a "for dummies" feature for people who cannot keep track of allocations. But Rust doesn't use "garbage collection", it uses "unicorn farts that nobody can quite describe" but don't call it garbage collection, because garbage collection has a negative connotation. Rust is a win for it's own marketing folks, and nothing else.
20 years ago, these "unicorn farts" were thoroughly described and explained in an AT&T Labs research paper: https://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/cycl...ne-regions.pdfLast edited by mmstick; 13 February 2022, 08:29 AM.
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Originally posted by dragonn View Post
And what other choices you have before Rust? Really? The only other choice was C++, a lang with adds more complexity without solving ANY C problems.
And other langs like Java, Python etc. are just not sensible option for some tasks, you just didn't have before Rust a choice if you need a lang with is compiled without a GC.
Also, I completely don't get how the whole "C is more successful" is an argument here, you are comparing a language with had ~40 years of time to adopt on the market vs ~10 years. Of course at this point in time C will be more "successful", that doesn't mean in 30 years Rust can be at this point now C is and even beyond that.
How is this even an argument? Man, it is like saying that fuel powered cars are more "successful" then electric because we used them over 100 years and electric cars are only recent getting tracking. HOW IS THAT EVEN AN ARGUMENT?!
According this report (written 2 years ago):
The C programming language accounts for the highest percentage of all vulnerabilities (out of 7 the languages that were tracked/polled) with over 77% in the last 10 years, and 47% for the previous year.
I understand that C has an incredibly large user-base, but damn that's a high number.Last edited by akira128; 13 February 2022, 08:47 AM.
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Originally posted by Volta View Post
I bet it's not C fault, but some developer. It's quite hard language, but very powerful one.
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