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  • #31
    Originally posted by Marco-GG View Post
    I really fail to see why so many people keeps trying to imply that this CPUs are bad with this price increase when they deliver a better performance than their Intel counterparts and AMD previous gen in the same price segment.
    Because Intel's pricing is absurd to begin with. Their manufacturing woes and prioritizing higher margin server CPUs made it clear why they haven't lowered their prices in spite of having the inferior product, they actually didn't want to sell anything on the consumer market as the margins are simply lower there than in the server market. If you have a limited amount of wafers to sell, guess which market gets prioritized?! The higher margin one! This is slowly changing as more of their products move to newer process nodes which they need to operate at full capacity to recoup their investments and therefore have more capacity on 14nm to serve the client market again.

    I don't say the 5000 series CPUs are bad, I just say that the 5600X (which matters the most because of sales volume, the market for high-end CPUs is rather limited) has got terrible value in comparison to the 3600 (X) now. And you fall for the fallacy to compare it with an absurdly priced product to begin with. You could also argue with your parents that a D which you've got in math today is not a bad grade after all because your friend got an F.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by pmorph View Post

      So... by that value assessment, you expect almost no one to buy a 5600X?
      I am sure that AMD will have a record quarter, Zen 3 is technologically a great product. I just point out the obvious price hike and complain about it as I see it as a huge value regression for the majority of shoppers (for whom such a six core would be enough to satisfy their needs). That might be corrected next year by the release of a non-X 5600 at the 200 EUR/US-$ price point, but not at launch - Zen 2 launched with such a 200 EUR/US-$ SKU and AMD made sure that you got them for the MSRP during the first few weeks after launch. This time they are sold out immediatly at much higher than MSRP prices. These are valid points to criticise, but I don't read or hear much about it in the tech press (at least Hardware Unboxed provided the cost per frame numbers in their review, we unfortunately didn't get any price/performance numbers on Phoronix this time).

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Jabberwocky View Post
        These glued dies are doing quite well.

        Is Magic Glue®

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        • #34
          Availability grrr... Was very ready to get a 5900X but none are available at MSRP. That being said, I still have the great 3600 place holder until I can get one. Big reason I settled on the 3600, $175 was all I was willing to spend cause I knew something was going to be worth waiting for.
          Last edited by creative; 07 November 2020, 11:06 AM.
          Manjaro: R7 5800X, 32GB DDR4 3200, GTX 1070

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Teggs View Post

            If that slide isn't being used as a cautionary marketing tale in college instruction, it should be.

            In any case, AMD's engineers made a hell of an achievement. In fact, Intel aren't the only ones who are going to look bad. Apple's ARM-based Macintosh offerings were going to be disappointing already, now they are probably going to look like garbage. The 'x86 is dead because Apple/Nvidia/ARM!' crowd is going to have to wait a while.
            What's really sad to me is constraints that the engineers at Intel have faced. The top management just don't want to take risks. Top engineers recommend investing in refactoring to avoid deminishing returns. https://youtu.be/Nb2tebYAaOA?t=1567 (speculating) Intel's magement are not listening to this logic and would rather invest in marketing.

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            • #36
              I see that outrage regarding ZEN3 not being given for free still continues LOL. Also it's hilarious to witness how random internet chads argue with AMD representative on what actually was going on at AMD in 2007, cause you know, reddit knowns better basically

              Comparing current price of the last gen with new gen is also effing genius logic, because last gen totally did not loose lika a 30% price since it's launched

              But, seriuosly, we must talk about entry price for a "class" of the product. You see 5600x is same class as 1600, and 1600 cost shit now, su there is a massive value regression here, AMD is bad LOL

              Rocket Lake won't have 10C model, ergo no 10C "class". I'll be waiting for insights how RL value is infinitely worse than CL, cause no such class, ergo 0 LOL

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              • #37
                Originally posted by drakonas777 View Post
                I see that outrage regarding ZEN3 not being given for free still continues LOL. Also it's hilarious to witness how random internet chads argue with AMD representative on what actually was going on at AMD in 2007, cause you know, reddit knowns better basically

                Comparing current price of the last gen with new gen is also effing genius logic, because last gen totally did not loose lika a 30% price since it's launched

                But, seriuosly, we must talk about entry price for a "class" of the product. You see 5600x is same class as 1600, and 1600 cost shit now, su there is a massive value regression here, AMD is bad LOL

                Rocket Lake won't have 10C model, ergo no 10C "class". I'll be waiting for insights how RL value is infinitely worse than CL, cause no such class, ergo 0 LOL
                Honestly I feel $550 for a 12C24T 5900X is a banging good deal, I can't wait to get my hands on one. Especially considering the performance uplift, for a little over half a grand? Without question a total steal.

                If anything AMD really outdid themselves on pricing.

                I can't think of a better time to start picking up on learning blender as I have been lately. Exciting times in computing.
                Last edited by creative; 07 November 2020, 11:05 AM.
                Manjaro: R7 5800X, 32GB DDR4 3200, GTX 1070

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                • #38
                  Looking at individual Fortran benchmarks on OpenBenchmark, I find some things I am really curious about;-( For example, for scimark2, 3700X 8-core posts a score of 1160 (ahead of 3900X 12-core's 1126), and way ahead of 5959X and 5900X (with 886 and 872, respectively); it's also worse than AMD 2700's 994.

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                  • #39
                    The chip I'm looking forward to is the 3300X replacement. The application I run the most is memory bandwidth intensive, so having more than two cores per memory channel doesn't make sense. But why not get a 3600? Because the the cores are split across two complexes, reducing performance for this application, the same issue with the 3100X. That means looking at the 3700X, which is a lot more expensive than the 3300X, considering only half the cores are useful due to memory bandwidth limits.

                    I also looked at Threadripper 3945WX systems, but Lenovo wants outrageous amounts of money to get in on that platform: if you want to complain about overpriced Ryzens, look no further.

                    I'd probably be better buying single or dual socket Epyc 7302(P) systems.

                    The 4 core variant of the 5000 series will be nice, since they should always be in a single CCX.

                    What's going to be especially exciting to me is if Zen 5 has 64 MB of L3 per CCX, as my data should fit entirely inside.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ms178 View Post

                      Intel is irrelevant at these obscene price levels. But this is not a new insight. For the record, such a comparison between a 10900K and a 5600X tells you nothing about the value of the 5600X, as a comparison between the 5600X with the 3600X tells you a completely different story. But as AMD keeps selling these better value parts, I guess we can still thank AMD for that. Just a reminder in case you missed it: You could have gotten a 1700 for less than 200 EUR 1,5 years after launch, but we are far away from that mark with the 3700X yet.
                      Where have you been earlier? In the previous discussion I was torn apart for trying to suggest that AMD has decided to rip us off for this new shiny generation of CPUs.

                      Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post

                      1.) 50$ more is not an 50% increase, do you even math?

                      2.) 5600 is coming, remember the non X SKU are made with lesser quality CCXs that build up over time and it seems this time the process is so efficient those parts didn't came frequent enough compared to previous iterations + AMD is in no rush either with that massive performance anyway.

                      If you gonna cry for 50$ then wait a couple of months for the B450 BIOS updates and the 5600 to release.

                      50$ is more than very reasonable giving it beat even the 3800X that is in the next price bracket
                      Why the fuck are you comparing the starting CPU of this lineup, the 5600X, with the overpriced junk which no one really bought, i.e. 3600X (and 3800X for that matter)?

                      You should compare it to the Ryzen 5 3600 and that's a $100/50% price hike for fuck's sake. Likewise with the 5800X which costs $120 more than its 3000 brethren the 3700X, $330 vs $450. AMD marketing will shit on you and you will rejoice, right? After all, it's neither Intel nor NVIDIA.

                      Sometimes it feels like AMD fans have shit instead of grey matter.
                      Last edited by birdie; 07 November 2020, 03:35 PM.

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