Systemd 246 Released With Many Changes

[starshipeleven]

The more fundamental issue is that systemd makes a shift from a sysadmin-centric view to a developer-centric view. With the traditional approach, the primary interaction with the OS is through a command line and configuration is by editing text files. With the new approach, the primary interaction as well as configuration is through APIs, of which the "systemctl" command and friends is only one client.

Please don't post bullshit about things you clearly have no clue on.

All systemd configuration is through text files, and "systemctl" is systemd's equivalent of "service" command we used back in non-systemd days to start/stop/restart/query/enable/disable a service. There are other tools like initctl or update-rc.d, again from the pre-systemd times.
See here how to do stuff you are still using commandline in the same way, just calling different tools depending on the init you are using https://linoxide.com/linux-how-to/en...stemd-upstart/

Btw, distros like OpenSUSE have extended the "service" command to work with systemd too so the sysadmin does not even have to learn new things, or change his scripts.

[tuxd3v]

I didn't say that. I said that Devuan is not adding anything that isn't already in Debian repos.

That is not true,
Devuan is relatively recent, it does maintain its roots.. but yes there are programs being in development on Devuan( in fact a lot of them.. )!

Alternate Init Systems
The following init systems are either available or being considered for inclusion in Devuan:

• openrc (available since ASCII)
• runit (available since Beowulf)
• sinit
• s6
• 66-devuan
• shepherd

Ubuntu is a joke, we can all agree on that.

I think Ubuntu as its place, and its target audience, like OpenSuse has, or any other distro out there..

[Guest]

Ubuntu is a joke, we can all agree on that.

Ehm,... Ubuntu is my daily driver, and didn't disappoint me, yet. I'm fully productive with GNOME 3. So, it's not quite a joke,... maybe, it's very easy to set up, which is a great aspect of Ubuntu, because it doesn't consume my time, and I use that time to put the effort into real work, which generates value.

[starshipeleven]

Ehm,... Ubuntu is my daily driver, and didn't disappoint me, yet.

You have very low expectations or you started using it only recently.
When it disappoints you, try out OpenSUSE.

[ssokolow]

You have very low expectations or you started using it only recently.
When it disappoints you, try out OpenSUSE.

Sorry. I have expectations for package management that I have yet to see an RPM-based distro meet.

(Expectation #1: It should be easy to Google up a proper counterpart to packages.debian.org or packages.ubuntu.com)

That said, I will admit that APT fails hard on two expectations I had back when I was on Gentoo before I suddenly needed to reinstall and get a working system quickly: eix (the best bits of apt-cache search and apt-cache show in one readout, much faster than apt search, all existing over a decade before apt search came on the scene) and a package database where you could safely run multiple queries and installation processes in parallel.)

I haven't considered an RPM-based distro to be a suitable daily driver since I migrated off MandrakeLinux 10.0 to Gentoo a year after switching from Windows XP to Linux.

That said, *buntu is definitely getting more disappointing, so it's likely I'll switch to KDE on Debian next time I reinstall rather than having to make sure that Ubuntu decisions (eg. snaps) don't pollute my Kubuntu. (Flatpak only, sorry.)

[starshipeleven]

(Expectation #1: It should be easy to Google up a proper counterpart to packages.debian.org or packages.ubuntu.com)

OpenSUSE has https://software.opensuse.org/explore that is both a official repo browser and a "PPA" aka community packages browser.
See for example if I search for zfs that isn't in main repos. https://software.opensuse.org/package/zfs
(yes you can use OBS repositories to host stuff for other distros too, as you see with ZFS)
And installing can be done manually or by "1-click-install" which opens a GUI wizard to install the package in your current PC.

That said, I will admit that APT fails hard on two expectations I had back when I was on Gentoo before I suddenly needed to reinstall and get a working system quickly: eix (the best bits of apt-cache search and apt-cache show in one readout, much faster than apt search, all existing over a decade before apt search came on the scene)

Afaik zypper (default package manager) can do that on OpenSUSE, out of the box, without any cache or other bs like with Apt.

sudo zypper search --help
[sudo] password for root:
search (se) [OPTIONS] [QUERYSTRING] ...

Search for packages matching any of the given search strings.

* and ? wildcards can also be used within search strings. If a search string is enclosed in '/',
it's interpreted as a regular expression.

  Command options:

    --match-substrings      Search for a match to partial words (default).
    --match-words           Search for a match to whole words only.
-x, --match-exact           Searches for an exact match of the search strings.
    --provides              Search for packages which provide the search strings.
    --requires              Search for packages which require the search strings.
    --recommends            Search for packages which recommend the search strings.
    --supplements           Search for packages which supplement the search strings.
    --conflicts             Search packages conflicting with search strings.
    --obsoletes             Search for packages which obsolete the search strings.
    --suggests              Search for packages which suggest the search strings.
    --provides-pkg          Search for all packages that provide any of the provides of the
                            package(s) matched by the input parameters.
    --requires-pkg          Search for all packages that require any of the provides of the
                            package(s) matched by the input parameters.
    --recommends-pkg        Search for all packages that recommend any of the provides of the
                            package(s) matched by the input parameters.
    --supplements-pkg       Search for all packages that supplement any of the provides of the
                            package(s) matched by the input parameters.
    --conflicts-pkg         Search for all packages that conflict with any of the package(s) matched
                            by the input parameters.
    --obsoletes-pkg         Search for all packages that obsolete any of the package(s) matched by
                            the input parameters.
    --suggests-pkg          Search for all packages that suggest any of the provides of the
                            package(s) matched by the input parameters.
-t, --type <TYPE>           Search only for packages of the specified type.
-n, --name                  Useful together with dependency options, otherwise searching in package
                            name is default.
-f, --file-list             Search for a match in the file list of packages.
-d, --search-descriptions   Search also in package summaries and descriptions. Default: false
-C, --case-sensitive        Perform case-sensitive search. Default: false
-s, --details               Show each available version in each repository on a separate line.
                            Default: false
-v, --verbose               Like --details, with additional information where the search has matched
                            (useful for search in dependencies). Default: false
-i, --installed-only        Show only installed packages.
-u, --not-installed-only    Show only packages which are not installed.
    --sort-by-name          Sort packages by name (default).
    --sort-by-repo          Sort packages by repository.
-r, --repo <ALIAS|#|URI>    Work only with the specified repository.

and a package database where you could safely run multiple queries and installation processes in parallel.)

no this is not possible with zypper afaik, it's kind of niche though. Just do all searches beforehand and then install stuff.
Besides, how is an installation process going to know that another installation process isn't going to screw with its dependencies or applications?

[Karl Napf]

The following init systems are either available or being considered for inclusion in Devuan:

All those are on the list for "inclusion into Devuan" because Debian already ships them all. Devuan has no man power, they can not maintain anything more complex than a theme or desktop background.

[Guest]

You have very low expectations or you started using it only recently.
When it disappoints you, try out OpenSUSE.

No low expectations, just KISS & YAGNI,... I just need to run a browser, few IDE(s), docker, couple of dev-tools, and some amount of local instances of back-end/micro-services.

I have tried OpenSUSE in past (~7 years ago), and it was the worst experience I had with Linux, as it looked horrible out of the box.

Long time running Ubuntu with GNOME 2, KDE 3, and then horrible experience with KDE 4 and early GNOME 3 versions,.. somewhat good experience with Unity DE, and still using GNOME since version 3.18.

[tuxd3v]

All those are on the list for "inclusion into Devuan" because Debian already ships them all. Devuan has no man power, they can not maintain anything more complex than a theme or desktop background.

You are also wrong,
Devuan does do development, there are even tools being introduced in Devuan that were developed there..
Since webcam applications till network managers, etc..

Now, you shouldn't expect that Devuan, in its short period of time, have a collection of tools like distributions that exist for decades..
The philosophy of Devuan, is not to change everything..

[tildearrow]

You should take a look at Artix ( https://artixlinux.org/ )
It's arch, without le systemd (You can choose installation ISO with OpenRC or Runit or R6). That distribution is well supported.
That way you canb continue to use "Arch" but have choice of proper init.

Artix suffers from lack of maintainers and sometimes their package releases are delayed.