Should Ubuntu Phone Rebase To Android?

[CrystalGamma]

outdated C language and arcane tools like vi

Fair enough.

modern language like Java

Lol. We all know there are much better languages out there (even on the JVM) for just about every aspect of Java you look at.
Except maybe tooling that creates all the boilerplate for you, which is unnecessary for many other languages ...

[johnc]

But why would any of those companies care about Canonical's offering? Android is already there, already free to use, and already a relatively mature product. Why would any of those companies look at what Canonical are doing, and say "we'll use that instead of Android"?

I've been saying this for years and have yet to hear a good response.

At this point smartphones are consumer devices that are commodities. There is nothing that Ubuntu offers over Android that is attractive to this market. Nothing.

If Ubuntu Phone was first to market (before Android), then yeah, there would have been potential there. But that's not how history unfolded. How is it that a smart man like Mark Shuttleworth can't see the obvious reality that this is a losing proposition?

[Cerberus]

I've been saying this for years and have yet to hear a good response.

At this point smartphones are consumer devices that are commodities. There is nothing that Ubuntu offers over Android that is attractive to this market. Nothing.

If Ubuntu Phone was first to market (before Android), then yeah, there would have been potential there. But that's not how history unfolded. How is it that a smart man like Mark Shuttleworth can't see the obvious reality that this is a losing proposition?

Much more privacy? Convergence? Even if privacy is not a big concern for the average buyer convergence is something Android and iOS will never have. Ubuntu and other alternative mobile operating systems will probably never dethrone Android but they can carve out a niche for themselves with time. I use Ubuntu phone for the last few months and I immensely enjoy the fact Google is not integrated everywhere in my phone, and that applications dont ask for phone book, camera and microphone access without any reason like on Android. Mark Shuttleworth is certainly well aware of the fact Ubuntu Touch will never dethrone Android, but he knows it can have its own niche, geek users, Linux users, privacy conscious users, business users (convergence) etc. That is a lot of potential users to make the platform achieve profitable success.

[johnc]

Much more privacy? Convergence? Even if privacy is not a big concern for the average buyer convergence is something Android and iOS will never have. Ubuntu and other alternative mobile operating systems will probably never dethrone Android but they can carve out a niche for themselves with time. I use Ubuntu phone for the last few months and I immensely enjoy the fact Google is not integrated everywhere in my phone, and that applications dont ask for phone book, camera and microphone access without any reason like on Android. Mark Shuttleworth is certainly well aware of the fact Ubuntu Touch will never dethrone Android, but he knows it can have its own niche, geek users, Linux users, privacy conscious users, business users (convergence) etc. That is a lot of potential users to make the platform achieve profitable success.

Convergence was already done by Windows 8. And it's hard to imagine Canonical straight-face selling itself as a pro-privacy solution. Will Ubuntu app developers be forced to open source their code?

[Cerberus]

Convergence was already done by Windows 8. And it's hard to imagine Canonical straight-face selling itself as a pro-privacy solution. Will Ubuntu app developers be forced to open source their code?

Windows 8 does NOT have convergence, you either dont know what convergence really is or you are misinformed, Microsoft's convergence is called Continuum and it has not arrived yet on the market.

As for core applications on Ubuntu Touch they are all open source afaik, in fact Ubuntu community contributed to them, they are not all 100% made by Canonical.

And you completely ignored my comment on the application permissions and how Ubuntu Touch does that much better than Android. And no matter how difficult it may be for some to accept it, but Ubuntu Touch IS designed with privacy in mind.

[duby229]

Windows 8 does NOT have convergence, you either dont know what convergence really is or you are misinformed, Microsoft's convergence is called Continuum and it has not arrived yet on the market.

As for core applications on Ubuntu Touch they are all open source afaik, in fact Ubuntu community contributed to them, they are not all 100% made by Canonical.

And you completely ignored my comment on the application permissions and how Ubuntu Touch does that much better than Android. And no matter how difficult it may be for some to accept it, but Ubuntu Touch IS designed with privacy in mind.

Well profiling and privacy I suppose arent mutually exclusive. You can be profiled privately I suppose, but that's not what Canonical is doing. They sell the demographics they profiled from you to the highest bidder. It's already fact that Amazon has gotten involved. At minimum we know for certain that the info profiled from you doesn't stay private.

EDIT: I doubt very much that you can be identified by canonicals data, but that's beside the point.

[Cerberus]

Well profiling and privacy I suppose arent mutually exclusive. You can be profiled privately I suppose, but that's not what Canonical is doing. They sell the demographics they profiled from you to the highest bidder. It's already fact that Amazon has gotten involved. At minimum we know for certain that the info profiled from you doesn't stay private.

EDIT: I doubt very much that you can be identified by canonicals data, but that's beside the point.

Unity 7 shopping lens can be uninstalled, also the whole online search can be disabled with a single click. Nobody forces the user to use online search in the dash, dont like it? Turn it off with a single click. People bitch about online search yet are totally happy to use Android and iOS who invade their privacy a hundred times more, double standards much. Online search in the dash can be easily turned off, try disabling Google and Apple services and see how useful your phone will be after that.

Concerning Ubuntu Touch you can disable online results in scopes easily, disable location service, error reports, everything can be disabled.

And Unity 8 is bringing scope mechanism from the phone, you enable or disable scopes according to your wishes, therefore you have full control over them.

[duby229]

Unity 7 shopping lens can be uninstalled, also the whole online search can be disabled with a single click. Nobody forces the user to use online search in the dash, dont like it? Turn it off with a single click. People bitch about online search yet are totally happy to use Android and iOS who invade their privacy a hundred times more, double standards much. Online search in the dash can be easily turned off, try disabling Google and Apple services and see how useful your phone will be after that.

Concerning Ubuntu Touch you can disable online results in scopes easily, disable location service, error reports, everything can be disabled.

And Unity 8 is bringing scope mechanism from the phone, you enable or disable scopes according to your wishes, therefore you have full control over them.

I never said google or apple were innocent. In fact the only android phone I have has gentoo linux on it. I would be happier with Ubuntu if they fulfilled their mission statement. People for the people right? Or is it really people for canonical?

EDIT: We already know what happens to people that don't fall in line with Canonicals screwed up vision. It's plainly obvious it's really people for canonical.

[Cerberus]

I never said google or apple were innocent. In fact the only android phone I have has gentoo linux on it. I would be happier with Ubuntu if they fulfilled their mission statement. People for the people right? Or is it really people for canonical?

EDIT: We already know what happens to people that don't fall in line with Canonicals screwed up vision. It's plainly obvious it's really people for canonical.

And you base this spectacular claim on what proof exactly? Amazon shopping in Unity 7 dash? Very compelling, I am sure Canonical is making millions from that, so much in fact that they are going to scrap it altogether in Unity 8 and use mobile scopes model. Got any real proof of "people for Canonical" claim besides your personal opinion? To which you are of course entitled to, but it is not evidence for your claim.

[Julius]

What I don't get is that x86 chipsets are finally competitive in the mobile space (and Ubuntu has really good x86 support), convergence makes much more sense on x86, and Ubuntu Touch could be the perfect base to run SteamOS games on mobile devices (tablets)... yet they focus on ARM chipsets for phones