Debian To Switch To Systemd Or Upstart

[pingufunkybeat]

Arch switched to systemd last year

He didn't mention Arch.

[Ericg]

I haven't had to write services for SystemD yet, but here are my 2c:

Writing an upstart service that shuts down cleanly is nearly impossible, the documentation on upstart is practically non-existant, and every year or so, something changes so I need to re-do the upstart scripts.

Writing a sysvinit script is well documented and understood. A single script runs on many different systems happily and doesn't often hit edge cases.

Writing a OpenRC script is easy, documentation is clear. The script also keeps running over several years.


I would rate upstart as worse as a downgrade from sysvinit, because it is so finicky. Sure it is faster, but... sigh.
I would rate OpenRC as a significant upgrade over sysvinit, it is fast, reliable, easy to use, and currently still supported. I think upstart may be faster for startup, but I think OpenRC is faster for shutdown.

A set of example systemd unit files... http://patrakov.blogspot.com/2011/01...ice-files.html he has quite a few. Some of them are lierally four of five lines total and youre done. No muss, no fuss.

[plonoma]

Here is a +1 for systemd, systemd, systemd!!

[k1l_]

soon Ubuntu will be the only one using Upstart or what's left of it because they are already using systemd components to keep up wiht systemd development

nope.
alot of projects get shut down for the favour of becoming a systemd modul/part. but systemd is not meant to be used modularwiese (except its given as false argument over and over again). where this leads to is clearly shown in this case:

gnome: we demand logind so we demand systemd
systemd-maintainer: we dont seperate the systemd moduls into own packages
systemd: we dont do your work

result: redhat pushes systemd into debian with gnome.
nice move, not!

[Ericg]

He didn't mention Arch.

Whoops, sorry, had just woke up and my eyes glazed over 'BSD' lol. My mistake.

[Akka]

nope.
alot of projects get shut down for the favour of becoming a systemd modul/part. but systemd is not meant to be used modularwiese (except its given as false argument over and over again). where this leads to is clearly shown in this case:

gnome: we demand logind so we demand systemd
systemd-maintainer: we dont seperate the systemd moduls into own packages
systemd: we dont do your work

result: redhat pushes systemd into debian with gnome.
nice move, not!

Isn't this more an effect of that consolkit not have a maintainer any more? Before canonical also began to use logind I think they speaked about take over consolkit.
As I understands it the protocol logind uses is supposed to be portable. Logind itself was never supposed to be portable outside of systemd. Other project was supposed to implement the protocol not integrate logind itself.

[stalkerg]

IMHO only OpenRC will can replace sysv .

OpenRC can evolution to "event like next generation blabla".
In OpenRC you have before, after, dependence and more!

[Guest]

Systemd is terrible... why would I want to install something 100x larger than sysvinit just so I can get binary encoded logs I need a running system to read....

1. bloated
2. prefers binary/proprietary over plain text and useable
3. its new... alot of effort to get you 1 and 2. The current solutions work... if anything OpenRC or Debian startup should be extended to support the needed features.

sysvinit is as good as dead. systemd is much more than init system thus it's larger. I don't know why you're calling it bloated while it's much faster than sysvinit. It also doesn't use big, bloated and ugly scripts.

[Guest]

Would be interesting to hear from LSB maybe, or maybe freedesktop.org.
Maybe get some voices from *BSD and Solaris.

It would be sad to see Debian lose *BSD.

It's cool if Debian is not so tied to Linux, that you can replace the kernel with BSD or Solaris or GNU Hurd or whatever. Maybe Darwin or Mach.

I hope the best system wins and the election doesn't get stolen by Canonical.
I think maybe everyone should just give the ball to Linus Torvalds and let him decide.

If you want to use BSD or Solaris use BSD or Solaris. It will be great if Debian drops BSD, Hurd and whatever, because they will focus on Linux.

[przemoli]

I will remove Debian from my disk (after 10 years) if they will switch to upstart. Fact that some Canonical employees are moving Debian into Ubuntu way, because of some political reasons is making me sick of them.

Calm down.

RHEL use Upstart. Its solid peace of code. SOLID LIKE A ROCK.

SystemD over Upstart come to small things, and one big. Big is automatical resolution of boot sequence (though processes can as to be startet after/before others). And lots of small things come to Linux only features.


In fact SystemD is unportable to BSD. Not unless BSD family invest seriously in their kernels. (List of *not all* missing API's can be seen on SystemD FAQ).
Upstart may be better simply because BSD folks may provided needed features quicker.

Canonical-hate, though is not the argument that build anything merytorical... So keep it out.