Fedora 19 Officially Released

[PsynoKhi0]

Wrong, the graphical element both exists and doesn't exist at the same time!

No quantum GPU, it's the best I can do

[Ericg]

in ubuntu I had it ^^ I am never patient ^^

they should compile it in rawhide in next 20 mins :P

I'm gonna guess through a PPA?

[blackiwid]

I'm gonna guess through a PPA?

yes the official ppa official from the xbmc project ^^

[Ericg]

yes the official ppa official from the xbmc project ^^

Yeah just checked the XBMC wiki, they only provide that development repo for Ubuntu. Everyone else gets it through their distro's actual repos, or through third party repos in the case of Fedora (via RPMFusion.) If you want the development builds you have to build it yourself from git, or stick to using Ubuntu and that PPA.

[blackiwid]

Yeah just checked the XBMC wiki, they only provide that development repo for Ubuntu. Everyone else gets it through their distro's actual repos, or through third party repos in the case of Fedora (via RPMFusion.) If you want the development builds you have to build it yourself from git, or stick to using Ubuntu and that PPA.

thats the stupidest suggestion I ever heard... is fedora not supposed to be a desktop distro?
Come on I am talking not form a 2 man 2month old new project xbmc is a big thing.

So even for the server-only 100.000 year old debian there are packages for xbmc 13:

http://debian.oppserver.net/xbmc/

and if I would use arch linux the same:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xbmc-git/

so do you really want to revert that I changed my prejudice that rpm distros are garbage? Come on thats not what you wanna do, or are you a fedora/redhat hater or something?

the more reasonable answer would be, ok I have no idea, or if you have insight into fedora something like oyu have to wait 2 weeks till we have it in rawhide.

Of course I do not compile that, if thats the point of fedora I just also install arch on my server/htpc too. The point of a non-arch distro is that you dont have to compile at least the biggest projects yourself if thats not given they are just useless... fedora is not supposed for servers there you should take redhat so is fedora only to not be used? then give a warning sign... this is for testing only dont download it or at least never try to use it productive.

Sorry for overdueing it a bit but you troll me that hard and I suppose I had to feed you for that

[Ericg]

thats the stupidest suggestion I ever heard... is fedora not supposed to be a desktop distro?
Come on I am talking not form a 2 man 2month old new project xbmc is a big thing.

So even for the server-only 100.000 year old debian there are packages for xbmc 13:

http://debian.oppserver.net/xbmc/

and if I would use arch linux the same:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xbmc-git/

so do you really want to revert that I changed my prejudice that rpm distros are garbage? Come on thats not what you wanna do, or are you a fedora/redhat hater or something?

the more reasonable answer would be, ok I have no idea, or if you have insight into fedora something like oyu have to wait 2 weeks till we have it in rawhide.

Of course I do not compile that, if thats the point of fedora I just also install arch on my server/htpc too. The point of a non-arch distro is that you dont have to compile at least the biggest projects yourself if thats not given they are just useless... fedora is not supposed for servers there you should take redhat so is fedora only to not be used? then give a warning sign... this is for testing only dont download it or at least never try to use it productive.

Sorry for overdueing it a bit but you troll me that hard and I suppose I had to feed you for that

Okay first off... Wasn't trolling. Secondly, Fedora IS a desktop Distro... Are you really suggesting that a "user friendly desktop distro" should ship developmental, pre-release, packages as stable? 13 isn't OUT yet, the only reason you had access to it is because someone ELSE compiled it for you from git. Also the AUR package you linked is the same deal...you're still compiling it yourself. Arch's official repos only provide 12 too: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/i686/xbmc/ gonna bash them too?

When 13 is -OUT- the package maintainer for XBMC on Ubuntu, and openSUSE, and Arch (mainline), and RPMFusion and everyone else will ship an update that will go from testing (Rawhide in Fedora's case) to stable.

And as far as your comment about RPM distros being Garbage.. openSUSE is a brilliant example of desktop friendliness, at a bit slower pace. RHEL/CentOS/Scientific are perfect examples of stability without outdatedness (Debian is stability WITH outdatedness). And Fedora is by far the best "Desktop" Centric distro I've ever tried for testing out the up and coming items. Perfect example being the inclusion of the new KScreen in Fedora KDE despite the fact that Fedora is shipping KDE 4.10.4 and KScreen wont be included by default in KDE until at LEAST 4.11.0

[blackiwid]

Okay first off... Wasn't trolling. Secondly, Fedora IS a desktop Distro... Are you really suggesting that a "user friendly desktop distro" should ship developmental, pre-release, packages as stable? 13 isn't OUT yet, the only reason you had access to it is because someone ELSE compiled it for you from git. Also the AUR package you linked is the same deal...you're still compiling it yourself. Arch's official repos only provide 12 too: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/i686/xbmc/ gonna bash them too?

When 13 is -OUT- the package maintainer for XBMC on Ubuntu, and openSUSE, and Arch (mainline), and RPMFusion and everyone else will ship an update that will go from testing (Rawhide in Fedora's case) to stable.

And as far as your comment about RPM distros being Garbage.. openSUSE is a brilliant example of desktop friendliness, at a bit slower pace. RHEL/CentOS/Scientific are perfect examples of stability without outdatedness (Debian is stability WITH outdatedness). And Fedora is by far the best "Desktop" Centric distro I've ever tried for testing out the up and coming items. Perfect example being the inclusion of the new KScreen in Fedora KDE despite the fact that Fedora is shipping KDE 4.10.4 and KScreen wont be included by default in KDE until at LEAST 4.11.0

ok then lets rephrase rpm distros are not garbage per se but because nobody uses them (else there would be ppa like packages) its useless for people who want to have access to most stuff, when its there not 10 months later.

2. "to test up and coming stuff" what is xbmc 13 else?

3. you even ship a beta from libreoffice in stable... its not out too? its a development release too, so its not true what you say, basicly you say we are happy to include testing releases when we like the packages if not, not.

4. again you could say in 2-3 weeks or so a alpha version is coming we will include that...

[Ericg]

ok then lets rephrase rpm distros are not garbage per se but because nobody uses them (else there would be ppa like packages) its useless for people who want to have access to most stuff, when its there not 10 months later.

2. "to test up and coming stuff" what is xbmc 13 else?

3. you even ship a beta from libreoffice in stable... its not out too? its a development release too, so its not true what you say, basicly you say we are happy to include testing releases when we like the packages if not, not.

4. again you could say in 2-3 weeks or so a alpha version is coming we will include that...

1) Plenty of people use them. all PPA's are are third party (non-official) repos. There's tons of third party RPM repos, you're just upset that there isn't one for the specific app you want.

2) You're mixing two topics. Despite KScreen not being in a released version of KDE yet, the app itself has its own release cycle and is marked as "stable." Its "up and coming" in that it doesn't have wide adoption, its not "up and coming" meaning beta or alpha. The closest thing to what you want would be Fedora shipping a development-preview of Java 8, but again: big difference. On F19 if you "sudo yum install java" you get Java 7 because thats the most recent. You can install by hand "java-openjdk-1.8" but it doesn't replace java 7, it installs them side by side. You can't even MAKE apps use Java 8 by default by uninstalling Java 7. If you uninstall java 7 with java 8 installed, then all java programs are uninstalled with java 7 as dependencies. IF you want to run a java app with java 8 you have to specify the full path to java8's binary followed by the app you want to use it. This is nice because then the only people who are using pre-release stuff are the people who explicitly want to, and not someone who saw that "java-openjdk-1.8 has a bigger number than java-openjdk-1.7, I'll install that one." and then wonders why all of their java based apps are crashing.

3) Where is there a beta of Libreoffice in Stable? There's a release candidate in stable, but its a big jump from pre-alpha (to my knowledge the alpha of xbmc13 isn't even out yet) to release candidate. release candidate means its almost done. release candidate means all the big bugs are gone and fixed.

4) WHEN the alpha is released, RPMFusion (not fedora itself. fusion handles packages like that) could package xbmc13 and make it available in the testing and/or stable repos, IF someone would step up and say "I'll do it. I'll maintain it." You need someone to maintain it though, otherwise there's no point in having the package. Its the same issue with the AUR you linked to on Arch. If that AUR package would be orphaned then you'd stop getting updates and bug fixes, and on pre-release software there's a high chance that some of those bugs could be pretty nasty. No matter what distro or repo you are on, what packages you carry is ALWAYS a manpower issue.

[blackiwid]

4) WHEN the alpha is released, RPMFusion (not fedora itself. fusion handles packages like that) could package xbmc13 and make it available in the testing and/or stable repos, IF someone would step up and say "I'll do it. I'll maintain it." You need someone to maintain it though, otherwise there's no point in having the package. Its the same issue with the AUR you linked to on Arch. If that AUR package would be orphaned then you'd stop getting updates and bug fixes, and on pre-release software there's a high chance that some of those bugs could be pretty nasty. No matter what distro or repo you are on, what packages you carry is ALWAYS a manpower issue.

1. but thats kind of the important stuff for a distro having success on the desktop, you can let users do some stuff you write em wikis for... you can let them edit some not to complex config files if it happens not tooo often. But at least you should give am the possibility to get that packages. yes of course you are not responsible that more people use ubuntu than fedora and xbmc itself supports ubuntu but not fedora...

2. so at least communicate better... if somebody installs linux and wants to install microsoft office or something... I dont say to him, either you setup wine to run it, or you should install windows. I dont even know if you are related to fedora but I guess, you maybe thing PR or how its called is not important for you... but when I switch away specificly away from ubuntu because I hate their attitute their desitions... I dont want to hear compile it yourself or install ubuntu. Like I said a polite answer would be I dont really know on which state we will make a xbmc package or I know it it will be at beta or at alpha state (in rawhide of course) or on RPMFusion.

Maybe you dont get how big of a deal the 3.10 kernel vdpau changes are, but its really big change. So of course many people wants to use that, even if xbmc crashs here and there.

So again I understand because of manpower or market share fedora cant deliver that, but I would suggest to communicate that better. And its like I am using trains, I am ok if I have to wait 1-2 hours because of some problems... but what I hate is no anwers how long it will take or what is happening. And I would have to stop me not hitting the personal if they would say to me, you should next time better use a car... or something like that.

And I dont just compile complex stuff just for fun... if thats a real requirement for fedora again I will use a more compiling friendlier distro like arch.

I dont install manuelly 1000 dependencies compile it and then make install shit and never be able to really deinstall that again... but make uninstall is not there or does not work reliable...

[Ericg]

1. but thats kind of the important stuff for a distro having success on the desktop, you can let users do some stuff you write em wikis for... you can let them edit some not to complex config files if it happens not tooo often. But at least you should give am the possibility to get that packages. yes of course you are not responsible that more people use ubuntu than fedora and xbmc itself supports ubuntu but not fedora...

2. so at least communicate better... if somebody installs linux and wants to install microsoft office or something... I dont say to him, either you setup wine to run it, or you should install windows. I dont even know if you are related to fedora but I guess, you maybe thing PR or how its called is not important for you... but when I switch away specificly away from ubuntu because I hate their attitute their desitions... I dont want to hear compile it yourself or install ubuntu. Like I said a polite answer would be I dont really know on which state we will make a xbmc package or I know it it will be at beta or at alpha state (in rawhide of course) or on RPMFusion.

Maybe you dont get how big of a deal the 3.10 kernel vdpau changes are, but its really big change. So of course many people wants to use that, even if xbmc crashs here and there.

So again I understand because of manpower or market share fedora cant deliver that, but I would suggest to communicate that better. And its like I am using trains, I am ok if I have to wait 1-2 hours because of some problems... but what I hate is no anwers how long it will take or what is happening. And I would have to stop me not hitting the personal if they would say to me, you should next time better use a car... or something like that.

And I dont just compile complex stuff just for fun... if thats a real requirement for fedora again I will use a more compiling friendlier distro like arch.

I dont install manuelly 1000 dependencies compile it and then make install shit and never be able to really deinstall that again... but make uninstall is not there or does not work reliable...

No, I'm not related to Fedora. I'm a user. As far as the MS Office reference... If I saw someone on the forums asking about how to install MS Office on Fedora, that immediately tells me a few things about the person-- they are new to Linux, they are probably new to open source, but they are smart enough to go to the forums asking for help. And I would tell them "Install wine" But I would probably walk them through how to do it to get it setup and running, explaining to them that MS doesn't actually support Office on Linux and that this is a workaround-- I'd also mention that they might be able to run some of their other windows apps through wine.

Judging from their release dates on past releases i would say that XBMC has a release schedule of "Its done when its done" Or "Once every 10 months or so" for major versions. As such, given that XBMC 12 came out in January of this year, I would guess 13 to be released this holiday season / early next year. But again, complete guess.

And yes, I do understand how big of a change the 3.10 kernel is. I've got an AMD 5730 in this very computer and I am desperately looking forward to both 3.10 for UVD, and kernel 3.11 for DPM. THAT being said, when 3.10 comes out you won't magically get UVD. UVD requires user-space changes in Mesa that won't hit until 9.2 which comes out in August if i remember. The only distros who will ship 3.10 and Mesa 9.2 any time soon will be Debian SID / Experimental, Arch, Gentoo and Fedora. Maybe not even Fedora as I'm not positive if they update Mesa mid-release BUT Fedora 19 shipped with the necessary changes to Mesa ahead of time so that when 3.10 came out, it WOULD work.

I don't 'compile for fun' either, I compile 3 things on a regular basis: thermald, kmscon and handbrake-- and a kernel for my laptop because it requires an out-of-tree patch to function correctly. Thermald will hopefully be packaged for F20 (fingers crossed), kmscon will be packaged once the VT subsystem is ripped out, and Handbrake stopped supplying packages for Fedora but it is on the Wishlist for RPMFusion, and is marked as "In progress." And as far as your comment about 'make uninstall' not working, thats the fault of the packager. I get its annoying, I'd be frustrated too, but if lets say you compile xbmc and 'make uninstall'-- or their custom equivalent doesn't work... yell at them for screwing up.

Depending on your desktop environment though man, seriously.. I'm not sure I'd be recommending Arch-- and I love Arch. But the past year or so I've been hitting bugs on Arch that only Arch had in relation to KDE. Fedora didn't have them, Kubuntu didn't have them, openSUSE didn't have them-- only Arch had them and that was using the same version of KDE across them all. Fedora's hit that sweetspot, at least for me, between user friendliness, fast updates, having to compile some things myself, and "new technology."