New Features Approved For Fedora 40, Renewed Debate Over Dropping KDE X11 Support

[Damnshock]

they should make sure that whatever they release will be 100% stable and bug free.

That is just not possible. Period.

But they have to pick a lane, stop being wishy-washy,

We did pick a line: Wayland only.

Some packagers are trying to bring the Xorg session back in a way that makes us (the KDE SIG) either depend on them for our updates or make the updates to their packages ourselves.

That is the problem.

[NeoMorpheus]

I tried both KDE and Gnome Wayland sessions this past month. Some observations:

Screen recording -
Gnome screenshot tool did not work to record video - garbled output
simplescreenrecorder did not record video at all
OBS - recorded, but sound and video were noticeably off by a half-second or so
Tried a couple of others that were advertised to work with Wayland, one was called 'kooha' and one was called something like 'blue-recorder' or something - neither one of them recorded video and audio appropriately

Remote meetings (Zoom, Jitsi, etc) - basically worked for the most part, but screen sharing didn't work well if at all, and sometimes audio was garbled

Most everything else worked OK.

===================================

I screen record at least once a week and do remote meetings almost daily, so without these working more flawlessly the Wayland sessions still aren't ready for full-time usage. Getting rid of the X11 sessions would require the installation of additional X11-capable desktop environments, and logging in and out of different desktop environments throughout the day.

We're getting close, but not there yet.

These are the type of things that makes "the year of Linux desktop" as something that will never happen.

MicroCrap got scared when Linux did the crazy 3D desktops and replaced the whole subsystem from XP to Vista and that was it, done in one shot.

Crapple did something similar with their filesystem and was pretty much done right away and without too much fuss.

Yet here we are, 10 plus years of Wayland and still missing a lot of stuff.

God, I feel dirty by sounding like Birdie/Avis....

[andyprough]

Considering Fedora, along with Ubuntu, Mint and MX Linux, is the premiere distro, they should make sure that whatever they release will be 100% stable and bug free.

If they do not think this is possible with Wayland, then they need to stick with X11.

But they have to pick a lane, stop being wishy-washy,

Phoronix is a weird echo chamber for Fedora users, but out in the real world Arch is clearly dominant now and virtually no one uses Fedora.

[mrg666]

Are you doing screen recording? If so, what program are you using?

Spectacle

[sophisticles]

That is just not possible. Period.

It's not possible to release something that is 100% stable and bug free?

That's a sad statement and explains why despite of decades of work, and billions invested, Linux as a desktop OS is barely a blip on the radar.

It's time to adopt a much more professional goal, complete stability and zero bugs.

If 100% is not something the project wants to strive for, then what is acceptable?

90%?

80%?

Lower?

Maybe it's time to start charging using a similar pricing model that MS, charge $100 for a per seat license and in exchange the guarantee is 100% stability with zero bugs.

[mrg666]

Considering Fedora, along with Ubuntu, Mint and MX Linux, is the premiere distro, they should make sure that whatever they release will be 100% stable and bug free.

If they do not think this is possible with Wayland, then they need to stick with X11.

But they have to pick a lane, stop being wishy-washy,

Debate is not if they should pick Wayland or X11, in case you missed it. It is about if X11 should still be included or dropped. It is Wayland forward, in any case.

[andyprough]

Spectacle

Ok I'll try it for screen recording in Wayland, thanks!

[sophisticles]

These are the type of things that makes "the year of Linux desktop" as something that will never happen.

MicroCrap got scared when Linux did the crazy 3D desktops and replaced the whole subsystem from XP to Vista and that was it, done in one shot.

Crapple did something similar with their filesystem and was pretty much done right away and without too much fuss.

Yet here we are, 10 plus years of Wayland and still missing a lot of stuff.

God, I feel dirty by sounding like Birdie/Avis....

Before " Linux did the crazy 3D desktops", Sun Microsystems sponsored the creation of Project Looking Glass, a 3d desktop that was meant for Windows, Linux and Solaris.

There's no question that MS and Apple took elements from PLG to create their desktops and it's likely that Sun simply re-licensed the desktop from GPL to a more commercial friendly license for them to do it.

Compiz owes it;s existence to PLG.

I should point out that if 2 companies were able to get their products finished and the open source initiative failed to do so, then it is not the companies that are crappy, it is the open source initiative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass

[sophisticles]

Phoronix is a weird echo chamber for Fedora users, but out in the real world Arch is clearly dominant now and virtually no one uses Fedora.

If you go by page hits on distrowatch, Arch is 64 on the list of 100 most visited pages:

https://distrowatch.com/

I think Phoronix might be a weird echo chamber for Arch.

[mrg666]

It's not possible to release something that is 100% stable and bug free?

You didn't know, you have not have heard anything about patch Tuesday, monthly updates? I am sure your "Hello World! is bug free. But real-world is a bit different.