System76's Pop!_OS COSMIC Desktop To Make Use Of Iced Rust Toolkit Rather Than GTK

[Quackdoc]

there is that old meme about the competing programs and such, but I don't think that really applies to S76. System76 seems to be the sole distro trying to create a linux environment that would be suitable to be sold in a product. been dinking around a bit with the new cosmicD, mostly just the compositor, it's actually not too shabby

[Eberhardt]

That's right, after the theme crisis, I've recently come to like libadwaita.
but they are trying new approach that makes gtk apps look non-native

The definition of "native" GNOME or GTK is literally the adwaita theme. Also, libadwaita can be themed pretty well meanwhile.

[soupbowl]

Time will tell if this is a good move, I think moving away from GTK is a good move though.

[You-]

...but with gnome really turning GTK into a gnome focused toolkit...

This is the second time I have read someone say something like this but it is so puzzling. gtk has gone in the exact opposite of that in recent years.

Heck, if you want to target gnome, you have to now use a platform library instead of solely gtk.

gtk4 and gnome's themes aren't even the same.

The whole point of developing libadwaita was to separate components needed solely for gnome from those that are generic.

[Mez']

It isn’t worth it to write a new toolkit just because of the rust meme. I’m getting Canonical NIH flashbacks. We all loved Unity and Mir, right?

Yes, we all did. Unity was the single most loved DE on Linux. (I know you're ironic, but you're wrong)

I really wish and cross my fingers that System76 will not disappoint and will help us get rid of Gnome in particular.
A massive amount of people are waiting for that moment, and more specifically for a good DE on Linux. There aren't many unfortunately at this point in time in my opinion.

We are badly in need of a desktop environment with a user-oriented workflow, with a reasonable amount of options that would empower the user in his own workflow, able to adapt to the different use cases as opposed to the locked developer-oriented environment of Gnome or the all-in-one-and-the-coffee juggernaut that KDE is.

System 76 has demonstrated that they are gifted UI designers, they have been offering a modern and refined interface through their theming, whereas libadwaita has a big amateur vibe to it and looks outdated in addition to locking you into that appalling theme that adwaita is.
Also, I hope they don't fall into the trap of that NIH syndrome that plagues Gnome and all their trying to reinvent apps that already exist in a much better shape and a million times more established in the mind of users.

If System76 can pull a Unity move and focus on being open, propose a reasonable amount of features to empower the user, keep having that artsy vibe on the theming and let the users decide what's best for them, they are going to kill it and quickly be the single DE everybody wants to use, just as Unity quickly became.

I have high hopes, hopefully it doesn't disappoint.

[Mez']

It's not very surprising given their choice to not use libadwaita. IMO libadwaita is a huge step forward in usability for developers in the GTK ecosystem. Without it, I would look for alternatives too.

I assume they might regret this decision in the future because this likely will (much like Flutter) not feel very "native".

libadwaita is the singlemost backwards step ever taken on Linux.

[Mez']

It is a smart move from System 76.

At this point, there is no way GTK/libadaita/Gnome devs will ever understand what a user-oriented approach is. Unity was created because Canonical's vision (and all their suggestions to make a desktop for the user) was rejected arrogantly by the usual bunkered geeks of Gnome.
It turned out to be THE desktop environment that was starting to air on some TV shows and that would completely conquer the hearts of a majority of Linux users.

Gnome is deemed as a community project but it is actually one of the projects furthest from achieving a community approach. Their big strength though is to lead people into believing it. Red Hat is one of the best company at manipulating and influencing minds with little will of their own. I suspect it's because they pay people to do so, there are quite a bunch on Phoronix. But that's another topic.

System 76 has the exact same problem about 10-12 years later as Canonical, all they suggest is being dismissed arrogantly.
It's not NIH when you are prevented from bringing your own vision or when they do not coincide. The philosophy of Cosmic will probably be very different from Gnome, an entirely different product. If this is fragmentation, it is the most welcome for the Linux actual (real) community. Free from the Gnome shackles.

Except if your job is on the line, there are very few people who would contribute to a project for which they don't believe in the direction it's going. Why would these companies develop for Gnome when they don't have a say in anything or can't contribute their own ideas because it is not a community-driven project? It makes no sense. It's just torture.
People who talk about fragmentation or NIH are just the usual close-minded Gnome fanboys (paid trolls). They can't envision anything broader than their own prism and they are way too limited in their perspective of things. It's a common feat for Gnome lovers.

This is the second time I have read someone say something like this but it is so puzzling. gtk has gone in the exact opposite of that in recent years.

Heck, if you want to target gnome, you have to now use a platform library instead of solely gtk.

gtk4 and gnome's themes aren't even the same.

The whole point of developing libadwaita was to separate components needed solely for gnome from those that are generic.

They are failing big time at it then. Gnome feels more and more like a locked environment indeed, and it strongly feels like they snub and disregard all the other GTK-based DEs. Those have no say whatsoever in anything. Fine, as Gnome is not a community project.

Budgie or Pop!_OS are trying to move away from it exactly because of that and they are doing the smart thing. See before the quote for why.

[bug77]

I didn't know about Iced. And i was really looking for some idea of stuff to do with Rust. Now I have one.

[furtadopires]

I'm looking forward to see how a rust developed DE will be in terms of performance, and if could be a suitable replacement for gnome.

If people at System76 are smart, once this new DE reaches out stable they should make the development "independent" of PopOS, in order to be used on more distros and get more contribution. Other than that, and cosmic might be faded to the same destiny as Unity.

[ATLief]

libadwaita is the singlemost backwards step ever taken on Linux.

You probably say the exact same about SystemD.