Ubuntu 9.10 Off To A Great Performance Start

[deanjo]

What?
I have tried just the last week an app for taxes that a local magazine gave here.
I used wine to play a 2D collectible card game online.
I've tried even office2000 in the past just for fun.
I've tried firefox with wine just to compare it with the native one.
Ages ago also, I used to run QuickTime.

Wow a whole 5 apps, again you are sadly mistaken if you think wine is great at anything except 3d apps. You saw a tax application on a local magazine. So what? You can't even say you tried running it or the quality of it or if it spans every taxation across the word.

The average user (for that kind of user we speak all these days here) won't need some extreme application. 99% will be fine with the native Linux ones. If he needs something so bad then some of the windows equivalents will run with wine.

Sorry but if you think the average user is just a web surfer you are SORELY mistaken. The basics, such as web use and wordprocessing can be done on any OS, however the avarage person has many other uses as well for a machine other then those basics. You don't believe me open your eyes and see what people have installed on their machines.

As far as I know the encoders themselves (x264, xvid etc) are not GPU accelerated. Anyway, I know that GPU is over ten times faster than CPU when it has to do with such things, but I also read that this dabadum you use, can not use the highest qualities of H264 and uses a tweaked version of x264 that produces some artifacts in the final video. Plus this thing costs over 20 euros. I prefer to eat 4 pizzas with these money...

Again you would be WRONG in assuming that the encoders are not accellerated. That is the current case with linux not with apps in windows there are more and more GPU accelerated apps every week in video from advanced video filtering to encoding. Applications such as vReveal, adobe premiere, badaboom, nero, cyberlink Pegsys TMPEnc, etc etc. Quality wise, having watched MANY GPU assisted video's you have to be a real eagle eye to spot any difference. In fact most of those early issues have been rectified with later versions.

When I answered to that post of yours I quoted it and in that quote there was not an answer. You edited it later and then you gave it, no just the pulseaudio. You can keep arguing till the end of your days. That's what I saw. Period!

Sorry sir, but you are a liar. Plain and simple.

Where did I exaggerate? What issues of windows did I write? Read more carefully than just guess that I did because most of guys do like that.
I just said the reason I installed Linux to my cousin's puter at first place and then talked about synaptic and the other things he liked in Linux.
Is that exageration?

Your promoting of vm's being a viable alternative for the average user and even more laughable your promoting of wine as a cure all for the shortages of quality desktop apps on linux.

[deanjo]

One last thing to, badaboom does not use x264. It's elementals own h264 codec. What it does use for decoding is ffmpeg libraries. Please, really, refrain on trying to comment on items you clearly have little or no practical use or knowledge of.

[neuron]

Wait a minute, xen requires windows and wine is emulation. Are you now conceding that linux does not have all the solutions needed to effectively replace windows? (BTW most of those apps won't run in wine)

Classic windows moron reply, "what, are you telling me linux doesn't have the windows solution I choose to handle a problem". No, you may however find linux solutions to it.

And what about the thousands (read vast majority) of other apps that don't run in wine. Wine works fine in a very very very very limited amount of apps.

May have been true years ago, however your talking about running old windows programs he's run for years, and wine works perfectly well for that scenario and is rock stable. Hell some software run faster under wine than under windows (I remember I got higher fps running Q3 under wine than in windows).

One funny thing is that companies like Adobe or Skype, by making their products available for linux, are actually pushing to make the platform useful for some of the most mundane tasks like reading a bloody pdf file or having a voice chat. Yep, closed source. I so hope that others follow suit.

Linux has had better support for pdf than windows has for years, windows still requires custom software to load one, linux has both had this built in, and ability to export to pdf in most software for years, we have no need for acrobat reader...

Sorry but if you think the average user is just a web surfer you are SORELY mistaken. The basics, such as web use and wordprocessing can be done on any OS, however the avarage person has many other uses as well for a machine other then those basics. You don't believe me open your eyes and see what people have installed on their machines.

For fun I did check, a friend of mine brought her windows xp laptop here and it was laying on my desk pending instalation of linux as the windows is beyond repair (she had a virus scanner/anti spyware etc, it didn't help her).

1 : 2 pieces of shareware graphics editing software.
2 : Skype
3 : Firefox over IE, to be fair I installed that one.
4 : Antivirus
5 : Anti spyware (2)
6 : Firewall
7 : Office package
8 : VLC
9 : itunes.

Skipping antivirus/anti spyware and firewall (which makes that light laptop run like a snail) every piece of software on that list comes with a free alternative installed by default by every linux distro out there. Some of her programs are even originally made for linux. Fact is a huge amount of users are only interested in getting their pictures onto facebook with their laptops these days.

//edit, I just realized she also has a shareware powerdvd install which means she hasn't watched any movies since it ran out, as she cant figure out how to get rid of it and she wont buy it.

[yotambien]

Bro, these are applications for experts no for average users. I'm talking about average user here who wants to surf, chat, listen music etc.

And yet, Windows has no problems whatsoever in running them. Ah, but they are Windows applications, that must be why. How about, then, dropping a couple of linux commandments? Specifically, "from embedded systems to supercomputers, linux pwns it all", and "there are open source alternatives for every single task out there".

There are other opensource pdf readers and voice chat programs out there.

There are others, only that they suck. And quite badly at it. As for the voice chat ones, without commenting on their overall quality, I guess they are OKish if all you want to do is to communicate with the geek squad. The rest of the world uses something else.

"what, are you telling me linux doesn't have the windows solution I choose to handle a problem". No, you may however find linux solutions to it.

How about, uhm, not?

May have been true years ago, however your talking about running old windows programs he's run for years, and wine works perfectly well for that scenario and is rock stable. Hell some software run faster under wine than under windows (I remember I got higher fps running Q3 under wine than in windows).

Of course. The following is a breakdown of the first and last page of the WineHQ application database. In the case of an application having more than one version I included those too:

garbage: 27 - 34%
bronze: 14 - 18%
silver: 7 - 9%
gold: 21 - 27%
plat: 10 - 13%


To refresh your memory, these are the definitions of 'Gold' and 'Silver' applications:

Gold:

"Application works flawlessly with some DLL overrides, other settings or third party software."

Sweet.


Silver:

"Application works excellently for ?normal? use; a game works fine in single-player but not in multi-player, Windows Media Player works fine as a plug-in and stand-alone player, but cannot handle DRM etc."

Notice how "normal use" actually DOES NOT translate into "use".

Linux has had better support for pdf than windows has for years, windows still requires custom software to load one, linux has both had this built in, and ability to export to pdf in most software for years, we have no need for acrobat reader...

That's utter nonsense. You may want to get a clue before posting.

[neuron]

That's utter nonsense. You may want to get a clue before posting.

...wtf is your problem? This is pure trolling, windows requires software to read and write pdf, a lot of linux applications have write capability, and every distro out there comes with a reader which works perfectly fine.

I work with pdf's daily for project reports and I've never once needed custom software for it on linux.

[kraftman]

...wtf is your problem? This is pure trolling

True. He ignores real arguments and talks about thing he doesn't have even idea. It's not even worth to continue this thread, because winboys messed it too much. One time they talk about compatibility with old programs, then about completely different things and now you can read about wine. It's second Yotambien approach to proof windows is better without giving arguments. What I learned from his posts is he has many complexes. Probably someone told him Windows and Macos are bad. The best thing is their nonsenses have no reflection in reality. However, maybe it's desperate try to cure wounded ego?

@Yotambien

And yet, Windows has no problems whatsoever in running them.

Neither Linux. Fool will pay for things which he can have for free and which are open source. This matters a lot. Hehe, one more thing. If you started talking about wine don't forget its devs have to 'implement' windows bugs to make some apps working. Be more lenient next time.

[Apopas]

Wow a whole 5 apps, again you are sadly mistaken if you think wine is great at anything except 3d apps. You saw a tax application on a local magazine. So what? You can't even say you tried running it or the quality of it or if it spans every taxation across the word.

I SAID I TRIED IT! Who has selective view now?
It run without problems and it does its job very well.
Also I have 100% success. I doubt it's just luck.

Sorry but if you think the average user is just a web surfer you are SORELY mistaken. The basics, such as web use and wordprocessing can be done on any OS, however the avarage person has many other uses as well for a machine other then those basics. You don't believe me open your eyes and see what people have installed on their machines.

Plz open your eyes as well. The vast majority of people use their computer to surf and watch movides. It seems the computer world is has advanced levels in your area.



Again you would be WRONG in assuming that the encoders are not accellerated.

That is the current case with linux not with apps in windows there are more and more GPU accelerated apps every week in video from advanced video filtering to encoding. Applications such as vReveal, adobe premiere, badaboom, nero, cyberlink Pegsys TMPEnc, etc etc. Quality wise, having watched MANY GPU assisted video's you have to be a real eagle eye to spot any difference. In fact most of those early issues have been rectified with later versions.

Actually, since I don't have personal experience I can only rely in web's articles and all say that the output quality isn't yet as good.

Sorry sir, but you are a liar. Plain and simple.

Your promoting of vm's being a viable alternative for the average user and even more laughable your promoting of wine as a cure all for the shortages of quality desktop apps on linux.

When I spoke with my example in comparison with yours did I say a thing about it? Who's the liar now? Well it's obvious mr, you don't know what you say. You answer to a post and then you use things I said later to justify your answer in previous posts. It seems you believe the the average user is some kind of lesser geek. Fortunately most of us know the truth.
I'm tired to speak with you.

[Apopas]

And yet, Windows has no problems whatsoever in running them. Ah, but they are Windows applications, that must be why. How about, then, dropping a couple of linux commandments? Specifically, "from embedded systems to supercomputers, linux pwns it all", and "there are open source alternatives for every single task out there".

I fail to understand your point here!

There are others, only that they suck. And quite badly at it. As for the voice chat ones, without commenting on their overall quality, I guess they are OKish if all you want to do is to communicate with the geek squad. The rest of the world uses something else.

Why the hell evince sucks? Pdf viewers are used to read pdf files. Fast and plainly. Fullscreen, next, previous, better fit etc... I can't really see why to install 50 MB just to read pdfs? Hell even in windows machines a lot of guys don't use acrobat reader. But anyway lets say you NEED so much Acrobat, then just install that crap, it runs native on Linux. You say that fortunately adobe ported it to Linux, but isn't that what you finally want? To see every stupid program to be ported to Linux?
But I can see what's your major problem finally. Skype is good because the rest of the world uses it. Ekiga is a piece of crap because is used only by a few Linux geeks so is Linux. Since windows are used by 90% then they are the best. Seriously sir I liked to argue with you but you dissapointed me with your last statement!

That's utter nonsense. You may want to get a clue before posting.

neuron is correct!

[deanjo]

I SAID I TRIED IT! Who has selective view now?
It run without problems and it does its job very well.
Also I have 100% success. I doubt it's just luck.

Read the WineHQ list. I can quite literally list 100's of apps that do not work in any shape or function ranging from Win 3.1 titles to todays latest.

Plz open your eyes as well. The vast majority of people use their computer to surf and watch movides. It seems the computer world is has advanced levels in your area.

They are hardly advanced. Apps you can buy off the shelf and are stocked everywhere. I guess retailers just stock them for looks don't they. Chances are, I probably see more average consumer systems in a week then you do in a month or more.

Again you would be WRONG in assuming that the encoders are not accellerated.

Name me one GPU accelerated video encoder in linux. Hint Handbrake doesn't use any.

Actually, since I don't have personal experience I can only rely in web's articles and all say that the output quality isn't yet as good.

So that makes you qualified to make a judgement on a product that you have 0 experience with?

When I spoke with my example in comparison with yours did I say a thing about it? Who's the liar now? Well it's obvious mr, you don't know what you say.

I know very well what I say.

You answer to a post and then you use things I said later to justify your answer in previous posts.

That is a whole purpose of a reply.

It seems you believe the the average user is some kind of lesser geek. Fortunately most of us know the truth.

Not at all, it seems you are the one that seems to think that the average user just surfs the web and IM's

I'm tired to speak with you.

So don't.

[susikala]

And yet, Windows has no problems whatsoever in running them. Ah, but they are Windows applications, that must be why. How about, then, dropping a couple of linux commandments? Specifically, "from embedded systems to supercomputers, linux pwns it all", and "there are open source alternatives for every single task out there".

Please stop with that Windows-centric view. I like merging directories of AVIs and SRTs into MKVs (mkvmerge). Could you find me an application on Windows that does it recursively as easily as I can do it with a bash one-liner?

There are others, only that they suck. And quite badly at it. As for the voice chat ones, without commenting on their overall quality, I guess they are OKish if all you want to do is to communicate with the geek squad. The rest of the world uses something else.

PDF is an open format. Saying Linux has no good PDF readers either means you never tried any, or a are a liar (and since you are the one trying to promote Windows on a _Linux_ BBS, this might actually be truthful). It's by no way a Windows-centric application, PDFs have nothing to do with Windows.

I do agree about VOIP though. However, Ekiga is making extreme progress and I already use it partially.

Also, the argument of "no one uses it" is moot. If you say that, then what's the point of this website and Linux in general, as only 1% of all Desktop users use it? Fact is we're trying to _change_ an existent situation, not document evil.