Ubuntu 21.10 Released With GNOME 40 Desktop, Many Underlying Improvements

[sarmad]

Too bad they didn't retain the vertical workspace option. People don't use multiple/ultra wide monitors nowadays or what?

[arQon]

What I would like to see would be a channel built into Ubuntu and derivatives where a user can choose to move more aggressively on updates to resolve issues. It shouldn't be the default, but it should be an option without having to be a software developer and getting out of spec.

Ubuntu provides that via the HWE stack on their LTS releases, for kernel/X/etc, but it sounds like you're advocating for it on basically a per-package basis. If so, even if you pretend that the workload on the maintainers isn't impractical how would you manage it as a user?

I guess some variation on pinning everything in apt and then unpinning whatever packages you want to be rolling "sort-of" works, but then you're blocking off maintenance upgrades. Still, that's probably the right basic premise: it would need an extension to apt to set a "rolling" flag on a per-package basis, but it's sort-of feasible in theory - but it's really not. The maintenance is a killer before you even start, and once you add in the DLL Hell issues and the impossibility of anyone else ever reproducing your setup when you run into the inevitable problems pretty much makes it a worse system all round, I think.

But I guess part of the answer to your wishes is snap/flatpak and similar messes: monolithic "app" installs running in isolation from the rest of the system, updating constantly in the background without your involvement (or in snap's case, your permission, sigh). Not something I'd want, but that's probably where you need to start looking if you want that behavior for anything other than HWE.

[arQon]

People have different definitions of stability.
For me stability is having no surprises after an update. What I have is what it is, and it will stay what it is. Just security updates, nothing more. No surprises by some developer that decided that a program I use should have a different lay-out of the gui, or having functionality removed or altered. No suprises by some developer that decided that my desktop should change its lay-out like with gnome3.x to gnome40.

Stability is more than just software not crashing. When I turn on my machine I know exactly what I will get, for as long until I decide to upgrade/change to something else.
Rolling release distros are therefore not for me.

That is exactly what "stable" means in this context. Vorpal et al using it to mean "a system with no (or at least, fewer) bugs" are simply misunderstanding the term.

[Mario Junior]

Please don’t theme our apps

[Danny3]

releases before lts are always this, nobody cares about them, most of the people who wants upgrade software jump to lts beta since is stable enough. the next lts will use gnome 41 with some apps at 42 version, the next lts kernel 5.15/5.16 and wayland session. Pipewire in my experience do not work like pulseaudio in laptops iwd maybe they want to continue stable before changing

Yes, but if they haven't switched now to either Pipewire or IWD, they will say that they cannot switch to them for the LTS because it's too risky and they didn't had enough time to test the integration and iron out bugs.

So it will take yeat another year until 22.10 to have a change to get either of them and that will not be a LTS release.

[lyamc]

I have an RX5700XT (NOT a bleeding edge card any more) that has regular green screen crashes.

This is likely a hardware issue. What’s your CPU/Motherboard and PSU?

[Alexmitter]

Funny thing about stable distros (and this is my personal experience and will likely not reflect everyone's experience) they aren't more stable than rolling release.

Specifically I switched from Ubuntu LTS on my previous computer to Arch Linux on my new one earlier this year. So far Arch Linux has been more stable. Fewer weird graphics bugs. Granted, the previous computer was a Intel laptop and the new one is an AMD desktop. Both have nvidia graphics (mx150 and a reused 1070 respectively, not buying a new gpu these days!). It is quite possible that dual graphics has a lot to do with the lack of stability in the laptop.

I'm probably going to install arch on my laptop at some point when I have time. I want to do a more apples to apples comparison of the stability of Ubuntu vs arch.

Only thing I miss with arch is debug symbol packages. So not an option for my work laptop unfortunately.

This is about API, ABI and software version compatibility stability. So if you build against something, you can be certain it will work for the lifespan of that version.
Debians other stability, so their promise on extensive testing can also be experienced on the rather rolling testing releases as they follow the same rules. Those are always rolling until branched off for a release.

[Alexmitter]

[SIZE=26px][B]Please don’t theme our apps

cringe

[illwieckz]

Funny thing about stable distros (and this is my personal experience and will likely not reflect everyone's experience) they aren't more stable than rolling release. […] It is quite possible that dual graphics has a lot to do with the lack of stability in the laptop.

You may have missed something important. The word “stable” in “stable distro” has nothing to do with the stability of your computer, it's about the stability of the API and ABI of provided software, and the stability of the list of provided and available software from the distro.

For example as a developer you can assume the way you interact with other software and libraries will be supported by the “stable distro” for the lifetime of the version, you can assume this library is available and with that version, and you can assume a build you may produce will run on the “stable distro” for the lifetime of the version.

This has nothing to do with “stability” in the meaning “your system is running without crashes”.

Here “stability” means that if a software runs in a way, you can count on it, even if there is better way out there, you can count on what you have for the lifetime of the version.

This is about product lifecycle and helping multiple teams to align their schedule and work on something that can be assumed by each others, for example the developer of a software can assume what is the environment the client expects or even what is the environment another developer of another software expects if both software are meant to work together, without needing to care about other software (we can count of them).

For example in “Debian stable”, what is said to be “stable” is “Debian”, not the computer. The computer may be stable, but there is just nothing said about it in that wording, otherwise the wording would be “Debian for making stable computers“, not “Debian stable”. ;-)

[FPScholten]

Yes, but if they haven't switched now to either Pipewire or IWD, they will say that they cannot switch to them for the LTS because it's too risky and they didn't had enough time to test the integration and iron out bugs.

So it will take yeat another year until 22.10 to have a change to get either of them and that will not be a LTS release.

Pipewire was already active in 20.04, next to Pulseaudio and still is so in 20.10. You can completely swich to pipewire if desired, did it with 20.04 and works like a charm. No issues so far. Uninstalled Pulseaudio after enabling pipewire completely.