Lubuntu Needs Help Testing For 32-bit x86 Support To Continue

[starshipeleven]

99% of the packages in ANYbuntu/Devuan/Knoppix/WhatEverPeopleCallTheirDebianFork come from Debian, are maintained and tested within Debian using automated testing like autopkgtests and piuparts, are (re-)built on native hardware and receive regular updates.

Yet, $RANDOM_DEBIAN_DERIVATIVE says "We need more testers, otherwise we can't make sure that the packages that have already been fully tested in Debian won't work for our users."

Debian testing coverage isn't as global as you might think, also they take ages to fix any reported bug, if they can fix it at all.
Also they can ensure stability only on the ancient stable releases, most forks aren't using that as a base.

Dear Michael, anything x86 is nowhere near to be abandoned in the near future. All compilers, JIT engines, browsers etc known to the universe are still 100% maintained on 32-bit x86 and are perfectly healthy. Just because some distributions like Arch, Ubuntu or $RANDOM_HIPSTER_DISTRIBUTION claim that 32-bit x86 is deprecated, it doesn't mean it is. Especially considering the insane amount of 32-bit x86 hardware out there, especially in industrial applications and third-world countries.

He didn't claim that x86 is dying in the article or anything of that sort, so please calm yo tits.

He only claimed that the "number of devices out there dwindling that can't run x86_64" which is correct. Most PCs are in first and second world countries, and 32bit-only x86 PCs are only being retired, not produced anymore.

And, no, your average desktop user in the western world is not the yardstick which should be used for making decisions about deprecating stuff. There are probably far more PC users in China and India. And many of them don't necessarily have the money to constantly buy new hardware.

FYI: most people in China/India are using mobile devices (usually Android), most don't even have a PC at all.

[schmidtbag]

I explicitly said that there is native support, which means you install the 64bit distro and it works with no modifications. No "more work" is required.

Except that isn't true for all modern distros. Here's a google search specific to Bay Trail and 32-bit EFIs (not even specific to problems with the EFI), refined to results within the past month (so these are all very recent):
https://www.google.com/search?safe=o....0.E_lBZi8K3jo
I understand google results vary depending on region, but for me, most of the results were of people struggling to get Linux to work due to the 32-bit EFI. On my end, there are topics revolving around distros such as Arch and Mint, both of which are popular. That still makes this a relevant problem.

Yes, yes you are. It's not even a new thing. Fedora 27 and Ubuntu 18.04 had native support for 32bit UEFI installation of 64bit systems, so that argument for "keeping alive 32bit" is moot.

Uhhh... neither Fedora 27 nor Ubuntu 18.04 are old, and not everybody uses them. So which is it? This is either a problem recently fixed (which nullifies your "not a new thing" claim) or, it's still a problem today to some people. Just because Fedora and Ubuntu have a solution to something, that doesn't make the problem universally fixed. Your definitions of "while" or "not new" are so vague that they effectively contribute nothing to your argument.

As usual, you don't focus enough on objectivity and look at things way too black and white. It gets annoying, since you're the one picking arguments.

To give you some credit, it does seem more and more distros are adapting to 32-bit (U)EFIs, and I would say that distros that don't currently support this "native support" are behind and doing a disservice to their userbase. But, this just proves how recent this fix actually is.

They are not in their right mind, I did talk about them too in my statement. I know people who cling to their XP garbage PC that takes ages to do anything, does that mean we should keep PIII systems with XP running? No.

I agree. But the fact of the matter is, people with these old crappy systems that hold everyone back just won't let go. So, despite the fact they shouldn't be relevant, they are.

[euler271]

well, just to put my 2 cents in, as one of the ppl who use these 'old crappy systems' (HP mini 210-4000), I'd say that it'd be sad if lubuntu stops supporting 32bit systems, I started using linux 24/7 on a netbook using Lubuntu(after I tested LXLE for half a week and hated it), so it's kinda sad to see it go away. However, I respect their decision, and to be honest, I dont care. I use Arch now (btw) and they stopped supporting 32bit systems last year, as you all know. the good thing with opensource is that if you have enough interest you can keep using whatever you want. Arch32 has been there from the get go, showing that there's still a lot of community support, so it was a quick,painless transition. And even if Arch32 goes away eventually, one can always fork it again. And if that stops being a good idea, for any reason, one can always create a new distro to support your type of hardware. As long as the linux kernel supports the system, everything's fine with the world. So, to summarize: byebye lubuntu, it was kinda good ride.

[starshipeleven]

Except that isn't true for all modern distros.

I think I said that already. Ubuntu and Fedora are among the most used distros, Ubuntu is also the upstream of Lubuntu, which is the distro in the article.

On my end, there are topics revolving around distros such as Arch and Mint, both of which are popular. That still makes this a relevant problem..

Arch can be disregarded as you need to install it fully manually anyway.

Mint issues are about the Mint 18, which is based off Ubuntu 16.04, people using Mint 19 (based off Ubuntu 18.04) should not have issues at all.

Uhhh... neither Fedora 27 nor Ubuntu 18.04 are old,

But I said they are not new. Because 7 months ago for Fedora and 2 months ago for Ubuntu is NOT new info by any stretch of the imagination.

I thought people that actually had issues with 32bit EFI would be informed about this, but of course you are not, and also required me to repeat my statement to actually realize that it's even possible at all.

This discussion here is about keeping alive a whole arch on some ubuntu derivative in the future, the moment the very same ubuntu upstream supports 32bit EFI installation then that point becomes moot, end of story.

And that "moment" was 2 months ago, so you are 2 months late with that argument. That problem for Lubuntu was solved 2 months ago, case closed.

So only reasons to keep 32bit arch alive is for actual 32-bit only hardware, that is far too weak and crappy to run modern programs in a PC. I'm perfectly fine with 32bit devices used for server or networking or dumb touch panels to control stuff, just not as a PC.

As usual, you don't focus enough on objectivity and look at things way too black and white. It gets annoying, since you're the one picking arguments.

I'm not the one that ignored the problem you mention was solved months ago in the very same upstream of Lubuntu, and then failed to understand what I told you the first time.

Whatever you think you see in me or others is just your imagination, please disregard it.

I agree. But the fact of the matter is, people with these old crappy systems that hold everyone back just won't let go. So, despite the fact they shouldn't be relevant, they are.

Which is where you are wrong. They don't hold back anyone, as Lubuntu developers pointed out they either show up and help pull their own weight or they get abandoned.

[schmidtbag]

But I said they are not new. Because 7 months ago for Fedora and 2 months ago for Ubuntu is NOT new info by any stretch of the imagination.

7 months isn't that long when you're talking about finally getting proper support for 4-year-old hardware. I think most people would agree with me that any change within 2 months is recent when talking about an LTS release. 2 months is a short enough time period that someone who has 16.04 on one of these devices might not have heard the news.

I thought people that actually had issues with 32bit EFI would be informed about this, but of course you are not, and also required me to repeat my statement to actually realize that it's even possible at all.

That's because I'm not someone with this issue... I don't have this hardware, I just know of people who do. So, I have no reason to be up-to-date on the matter.

This discussion here is about keeping alive a whole arch on some ubuntu derivative in the future, the moment the very same ubuntu upstream supports 32bit EFI installation then that point becomes moot, end of story.
...
So only reasons to keep 32bit arch alive is for actual 32-bit only hardware, that is far too weak and crappy to run modern programs in a PC. I'm perfectly fine with 32bit devices used for server or networking or dumb touch panels to control stuff, just not as a PC.

Fair enough. But as usual, you could be less of an asshole to get the exact same points across.

I'm not the one that ignored the problem you mention was solved months ago in the very same upstream of Lubuntu, and then failed to understand what I told you the first time.

I'm not the one making blanket statements about the entire Linux community because of the success of a couple distros.

Which is where you are wrong. They don't hold back anyone, as Lubuntu developers pointed out they either show up and help pull their own weight or they get abandoned.

Yes, it does hold back people. This is why we still have 32-bit programs like Steam, or why we aren't seeing applications optimized with modern instruction sets (which Clear Linux proves is worthwhile). It's best to target the widest demographic, but that indirectly comes at the expense of progress.

[drSeehas]

18.04 LTS exists already. That's 5 years of support. Is anyone going to use Pentium 4 (and friends) in 2023? ...

???

Lubuntu 18.04 LTS is the 14th release of Lubuntu, with support until April of 2021.

https://lubuntu.me/bionic-released/

In my world this is less than 3 years of support.

[dungeon]

18.04 LTS exists already. That's 5 years of support. Is anyone going to use Pentium 4 (and friends) in 2023?

Only Ubuntu proper have that 5 years of support (to say mainly only 'main' repo packages are supported 5 years, but not 'universe' that has 3 years), so any other flavors have that 3 years of support.

And even these 3 years aren't exactly always true For example Ubuntu Studio flavor of 18.04 is LTS, but actually isn't considered LTS by its authors

Unlike the other Ubuntu flavors, this release of Ubuntu Studio is not a Long-Term Suppport (LTS) release. As a regular release, it will be supported for 9 months. Although it is not a Long-Term Support release, it is still based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS which means the components will be supported as usual for a LTS release.

https://ubuntustudio.org/2018/04/ubu...8-04-released/

[stiiixy]

I enjoy using my Pentium III 1200 on occassion. Nostalgia obviously. No harm keeping them around. Never know when a spectre might affect ya.