It's Been Three Years Since "GNOME 4.0" Was Proposed

[horizonbrave]

I'm an happy gnome user.. gnome 3 is just beautiful. No idea though for the next big version, we probably don't need a shocker but refinements and bug fixing.. lets never underestimate how important they are, especially now that we moving into Wayland. The only thing I don't like about gnome is that some basic options are delegated to tweaks and extensions, IMHO they should be into the main setting panel, that will also stop some of the people crying about gnome forcing them into a particular workflow.

I also hope that one day Gnome Software will integrate better all system programs, codecs and shit in itself (at least showing their info if too dangerous to be touched by UI).

Please could someone enlight me on how to improve the way the dash shows already running applications? That miserable underscore below the icon is not an instant eye catch or am I the only one thinking of it as a design flaw?
Cheers

[Luke]

GNOME's default extension kit is actually enough to copy much of my MATE desktop except that the top panel and taskbar cannot be combined into a single panel at the bottom. Although I prefer the MATE applets, most of them have counterparts for GNOME. The main UI issue for me is the tray. Cinnamon also has a big applet infrastructure and can easily copy most MATE desktops. To me the real reason for going back to MATE is not a UI issue given all this, it's a technical slower responding and/or using more power. Even where the difference is trivial (big machines) it struck me as an example of "Page's Law" about software getting half as fast as the same rate as hardware getting twice as fast. That was why I did the huge amount of work and study it took to do copy the shell theming I used to use in GNOME 3/Frippery and Cinnamon in MATE compiled with Gtk3. I must have several hundred hours in that, but it's been also a useful education in coding due to the hacks needed in 7 of the binary packages. I've got the old GNOME 3.0-3.14 style shell theme as a MATE-panel/menu/applet theme without changing application themes, and even an overview thanks to compiz expo, but the fast compiled code of MATE and compiz and all the productivity, muli-tasking strengths of GNOME 2. If GNOME had never existed I would not have any of this unless I had wrote all of it from scratch and I am a long way from that ability. I always keep GNOME 3 and Cinnamon installed both to test gtk themes and as backups for when I break something hacking on MATE's code.,

[TheBlackCat]

My question is for those who love KDE, can KDE take advantage of what GNOME has to offer in terms of simplicity and Mac-like header bars for applications?

Yes, if you want. It doesn't force it, but you can use it if you prefer.

Why be so stuck with Windows XP-liked desktop environments? Why not a desktop environments/window manager (other than tiled window managers) take a desktop metaphor to a whole new direction?

That is pretty ironic, considering that when KDE 4.x first came out, GNOME fans were complaining about how it deviated too much from the traditional desktop paradigm. And then GNOME came and deviated more, and immediately the same people started complaining that KDE didn't deviate enough.

Plasma is not a Windows XP-like desktop environments. No desktop icons by default, everything is a widget, activities, radically different application launcher, every is replaceable, multiple desktops, pop-up runner, etc.

Maybe a desktop environment that is mobile-first and desktop-second? Something that Unity is trying to do for convergence. Give a desktop environment a mobile interface that scales up to large screens! Oh WAIT A DAMN MINUTE there is a STUPID BACKLASH going on with that direction... *sigh*

With plasma you don't have to make that choice. It allows you to switch between interfaces optimized for particular devices at run-time. It had convergence long before Unity or Windows.

People should give GNOME 3.16 a try just for one month and stop brainwashing themselves.

Considering every one of your criticisms of KDE were simply wrong, it is pretty obvious you are the one who needs to try other desktop environments.

[droidhacker]

seems to me you're stuck in 2008 and now just wait for the world to catch up. the idea of desktop and touch being different was tried and failed process ever since then,

Desktop and touch are fundamentally VERY different and HAVE to have a different UI, or at least one of them will NOT WORK AT ALL.

[droidhacker]

It seems to me that a lot of people are brainwashing themselves. Look at how many posts are about how Gnome _forces_ Gnome Shell and that instead, it should provide an alternative. Well, that's what Gnome does. You have the classic desktop from Gnome 2 and you have the new Gnome Shell. You don't have to use Gnome Shell, like a lot of people seem to have successfully convinced themselves. The Gnome Panel desktop was always there and still is. The problem is that such a huge number of people refuse to talk about things they like, instead focusing on what they _don't_ like. That way, the classic desktop gets no attention, leading more people to think it no longer exists. This has been a problem for years now. But it's still there. If you want something like Mate, but based on Gnome 3 rather than Gnome 2, then look at Gnome Flashback. And of course, if you want Gnome 2, then just use Mate.

gnome 3 "classic" is crippled and crashy. But you are right that there is at least that. Problem is that it is very far from complete.

[droidhacker]

You are sadly mistaken and misinformed by comparing Windows 8 interface with Gnome Shell thinking the latter was made for touch screen only. Gnome Shell allows more accessibility with keyboard than mouse. As mentioned on previous posts, Gnome Classic is available for those looking at the legacy Gnome 2, RHEL7 and its derivate CentOS 7 uses Gnome Classic by default.
What is annoying on some post is the abuse of the word "Forcing" omitting that the work are done by the developers and designer on their spare time. Those complainers forgot they can get alternative as they wish.

Yeah, but that's because they missed the mark for a touch interface, which requires stuff that you poke at to be LARGE enough to poke it.

[droidhacker]

+1!

And there are always extensions to configure the GNOME desktop how you like. I love what GNOME is progressing with GNOME/GTk3 3.18, but there are some things I'd like to have if you refer to my post with my screenshot of my desktop.

My question is for those who love KDE, can KDE take advantage of what GNOME has to offer in terms of simplicity and Mac-like header bars for applications? Why be so stuck with Windows XP-liked desktop environments? Why not a desktop environments/window manager (other than tiled window managers) take a desktop metaphor to a whole new direction? Maybe a desktop environment that is mobile-first and desktop-second? Something that Unity is trying to do for convergence. Give a desktop environment a mobile interface that scales up to large screens! Oh WAIT A DAMN MINUTE there is a STUPID BACKLASH going on with that direction... *sigh*

People should give GNOME 3.16 a try just for one month and stop brainwashing themselves.

Now granted, I don't like Windows 8/8.1. I could care less for the tiled interfaces of Windows Phones (no, not to be confused with Windows Mobile--6.5 or earlier) and all that stupid flatness that came with it. I prefer realism and that's why I love so much about Windows 7. Of course, Mac OS 10.10 Yosemite did went away with realism and went with flat icons. Now that does not stop me from buying a Mac Mini (high-end, mind you) as I used to use a Mac when I was at school decades ago (I'm 32 years old, soon to be 33).

Heh... Maybe I'm just a bit anti-Linux but I am very much anti-Windows (I like the freedom to modify how I want to use my desktop and change the way I like to work, including the underlying parts of the system). *sigh*

I addressed those "extensions". They're fine if you like a desktop with a thousand unstable extensions that is really twitchy and slow, where those extensions randomly start failing, causing the entire extension framework to explode and dump you back to "basic" mode, and force you to redo the set of extensions every few days.

[droidhacker]

What touch stuff? Sure, G3 is probably more usable on a touch-screen than it's predecessor - but it's also much better for keyboard users too.

It is complete TRASH for a keyboard and mouse.
- it is massively disruptive,
- it is way too big,
- it is disorganized.

DE: Not the objective of a computer to "use the DE". The DE is there to facilitate the use of the programs that you NEED to use.
Do not disrupt my work. Facilitate my use, and GET THE HELL OUT OF MY WAY.

[droidhacker]

I'm an happy gnome user.. gnome 3 is just beautiful.

DE is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE "BEAUTIFUL".
DE is supposed to facilitate productivity and GO AWAY.

[horizonbrave]

DE is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE "BEAUTIFUL".
DE is supposed to facilitate productivity and GO AWAY.

Well in my simple words beautiful also meant that it does it.. it goes away, and when it comes back is still simple, minimal and elegant but also sophisticated at the same time. KDE feels just ugly and messy... and I personally don't like winXP style DE by the way (mate, cinnamon and xfce can all fit in this category probably). Also Crunch Nang with its fully configured openbox+dock wasn't that bad. Anyway these are only personal opinion.. it's all about taste after all