Mozilla Thunderbird Adoption Climbs, Thunderbird 38 In May

[Havin_it]

Of course I can de-bastardize software, especially if I have source.

You do not need access to the source to uncheck the checkbox that Firefox throws in your face on first run, asking you if you want to enable Telemetry, Health Report or Crash Reporter.

But it's not like if I like to do so. I really prefer programs which do not conduct unrequested and potentially unwanted kinds of spyware-like activity.

Please, give us one concrete example of how Firefox does this. Just one.

One of reasons I like Linux is the fact software installed from repos is not supposed to pwn user under normal course of actions and tends to be frienly, respecting privacy and there is no room for adware and spyware.

Sorry but that as a blanket statement is toe-curlingly na?ve. Where do you get this implicit trust of distros and their packagers from? I sincerely advise you to lose it with a quickness.

Mozilla products recently gone really close to the line and some distros like Debian who respect their users and their freedom and privacy gone as far as supplying own, de-bastardized versions of Mozilla things, which serves as good indicator Mozilla is no longer trustworthy entity.

This is complete and utter bullshit, where did you get this from? IceWeasel/IceDove came about because Debian could/would not distribute the apps in a manner compatible with the MPL terms, therefore MoFo withheld permission for Debian to use the Firefox/Tbird branding or names in their releases. The differences had nothing at all to do with questions of privacy; AFAIR there were none back then (even of the kneejerk uninformed variety that now exist, eh?)

To be honest, now Mozilla looks like come google-like commercial entity

Mozilla Corporation is indeed a commercial entity, well spotted! Mozilla Foundation is not. Commercial and community-oriented activities are separated and one can't dominate the other. It's a good model.

inclined on aggressve marketing, fooling users, stealing their private data,

One concrete example of this. Please.

obtaining centralized control over "ecosystem" and so on.

What does that even mean?

It looks so googlish. The only prob for them is that they are really poor "google substitute" and I bet they would not stand a chance against google on google's own battlefield.

They make a browser and are making a mobile OS. If you think the similarity extends beyond that, or that they are on any kind of "battlefield" together, please elaborate.

And now Mozilla quickly losing respect of users who used their products over MS and somesuch because Mozilla were less evil, at least initially.

I'd have said most people migrated from IE to Firefox because IE was utter donkey balls, personally, maybe you don't remember just how bad it was. The sense of ethics was just the cherry on top. People are now migrating to Chrome and IE because they consider them better browsers now. Most people do not have "software politics".

I guess Mozilla market share can go to almost 0% soon, at least for browser. It looks like third rate of Chrome, virtually everywhere.

When shall we reconvene and test this prediction of yours? I'll bring the popcorn.

Those who use windows do not care for privacy and freedom for sure, so why bother?

Way to pigeonhole >90% of the world's desktop computer users. Met us all, have you?

And actually, good program stays good even after 6 month. Very good program stays good even after 6 years. Sure, it could be improved... or made worse. Really depends.

Now this at least I agree with. Mozilla's greatest fault in my book is feature-creep at the expense of consistent usability.

For me, I like Firefox version 1.0 far more than what it became today - treacherous piece of spyware, trying to steal all sorts of data (up to exact kernel version)

You are alerted to the "data choices" options on first run. Is unchecking those three boxes that they wave right in front of you really so hard? I fail to see the "treachery".

and bringing all sorts of cruft I have never asked for. Say, if I dare to take a look on their devtools, they would install some adb binary right into /home/username dir. Without even asking if its okay to download and install some shit.

So you choose to install developer tools, and it installs ... a developer tool. MAN THE LIFEBOATS!

Not to mention my system can install ADB in proper way using system package manager and that's the only way I would tolerate software install.

Again, why the implicit trust of distro packagers? There are hundreds of them operating within any good-size distro, the bar to entry is low to non-existent, and most of them don't even have a face, just a handle.

Not just they became worse, they became winduz-style malware. I bet they should supply some couple of adware browser bars integrated to their browser to increase their incomes (while mumbling they're not commercial, blahblahblah to evade taxes).

Nothing there I haven't addressed above. Please, grow up. Mozilla ain't perfect but they are streets ahead of the competition in the very criterion you hold so dear: ethics. That's exactly why I have and will continue to trust them over those others. Nothing they've done (I mean really done, not your fever-dreams of persecution) has done anything to shake that trust. The search bar, sponsored tiles, telemetry: all these things have been clearly explained and justification provided, not hidden, and you can turn them all off very easily. Show me one other browser-maker that can say the same.

Sorry for the uber-rant but it offends me when people talk such uninformed, downright libellous bollocks about Moz. Y'all need to get some perspective.

[Havin_it]

Of course I can de-bastardize software, especially if I have source.

You do not need access to the source to uncheck the checkbox that Firefox throws in your face on first run, asking you if you want to enable Telemetry, Health Report or Crash Reporter.

But it's not like if I like to do so. I really prefer programs which do not conduct unrequested and potentially unwanted kinds of spyware-like activity.

Please, give us one concrete example of how Firefox does this. Just one.

One of reasons I like Linux is the fact software installed from repos is not supposed to pwn user under normal course of actions and tends to be frienly, respecting privacy and there is no room for adware and spyware.

Sorry but that as a blanket statement is toe-curlingly na?ve. Where do you get this implicit trust of distros and their packagers from? I sincerely advise you to lose it with a quickness.

Mozilla products recently gone really close to the line and some distros like Debian who respect their users and their freedom and privacy gone as far as supplying own, de-bastardized versions of Mozilla things, which serves as good indicator Mozilla is no longer trustworthy entity.

This is complete and utter bullshit, where did you get this from? IceWeasel/IceDove came about because Debian could/would not distribute the apps in a manner compatible with the MPL terms, therefore MoFo withheld permission for Debian to use the Firefox/Tbird branding or names in their releases. The differences had nothing at all to do with questions of privacy; AFAIR there were none back then (even of the kneejerk uninformed variety that now exist, eh?)

To be honest, now Mozilla looks like come google-like commercial entity

Mozilla Corporation is indeed a commercial entity, well spotted! Mozilla Foundation is not. Commercial and community-oriented activities are separated and one can't dominate the other. It's a good model.

inclined on aggressve marketing, fooling users, stealing their private data,

One concrete example of this. Please.

obtaining centralized control over "ecosystem" and so on.

What does that even mean?

It looks so googlish. The only prob for them is that they are really poor "google substitute" and I bet they would not stand a chance against google on google's own battlefield.

They make a browser and are making a mobile OS. If you think the similarity extends beyond that, or that they are on any kind of "battlefield" together, please elaborate.

And now Mozilla quickly losing respect of users who used their products over MS and somesuch because Mozilla were less evil, at least initially.

I'd have said most people migrated from IE to Firefox because IE was utter donkey balls, personally, maybe you don't remember just how bad it was. The sense of ethics was just the cherry on top. People are now migrating to Chrome and IE because they consider them better browsers now. Most people do not have "software politics".

I guess Mozilla market share can go to almost 0% soon, at least for browser. It looks like third rate of Chrome, virtually everywhere.

When shall we reconvene and test this prediction of yours? I'll bring the popcorn.

Those who use windows do not care for privacy and freedom for sure, so why bother?

Way to pigeonhole >90% of the world's desktop computer users. Met us all, have you?

And actually, good program stays good even after 6 month. Very good program stays good even after 6 years. Sure, it could be improved... or made worse. Really depends.

Now this at least I agree with. Mozilla's greatest fault in my book is feature-creep at the expense of consistent usability.

For me, I like Firefox version 1.0 far more than what it became today - treacherous piece of spyware, trying to steal all sorts of data (up to exact kernel version)

You are alerted to the "data choices" options on first run. Is unchecking those three boxes that they wave right in front of you really so hard? I fail to see the "treachery".

and bringing all sorts of cruft I have never asked for. Say, if I dare to take a look on their devtools, they would install some adb binary right into /home/username dir. Without even asking if its okay to download and install some shit.

So you choose to install developer tools, and it installs ... a developer tool. MAN THE LIFEBOATS!

Not to mention my system can install ADB in proper way using system package manager and that's the only way I would tolerate software install.

Again, why the implicit trust of distro packagers? There are hundreds of them operating within any good-size distro, the bar to entry is low to non-existent, and most of them don't even have a face, just a handle.

Not just they became worse, they became winduz-style malware. I bet they should supply some couple of adware browser bars integrated to their browser to increase their incomes (while mumbling they're not commercial, blahblahblah to evade taxes).

Nothing there I haven't addressed above. Please, grow up. Mozilla ain't perfect but they are streets ahead of the competition in the very criterion you hold so dear: ethics. That's exactly why I have and will continue to trust them over those others. Nothing they've done (I mean really done, not your fever-dreams of persecution) has done anything to shake that trust. The search bar, sponsored tiles, telemetry: all these things have been clearly explained and justification provided, not hidden, and you can turn them all off very easily. Show me one other browser-maker that can say the same.

Sorry for the uber-rant but it offends me when people talk such uninformed, downright libellous bollocks about Moz. Y'all need to get some perspective.