MonoDevelop vs. Xamarin Studio IDEs

[ciplogic]

There's no logic in your comments. Google and facebook are Linux friendly companies while apple and ms are anti Linux ones. I have no reasons to attack Nvidia which supports Linux with their great drivers. It's such simple and I feel depressed when reading such bullshit. Oh, and one more thing: as far as I know neither facebook or nvidia are Linux competitors on desktop market. Apple didn't gave llvm, they found it will be better to them to use some open source license. They try to compete against GCC which comes with far better license, so this example is totally idiotic.

I think you cut and paste and take any conclusion anyway.

So Apple and MS are bad because they don't support Linux, so you have to embrace Novell and Xamarin as they supported Linux Desktop properly for a long long time (and they still do). Did I miss a meeting when I can see Novell Windows, instead of Novell Suse Linux.

For a refresh: LLVM is mainly an Apple sponsored project. Still LLVM seems a good addition for Linux (and C based languages), and an open spec like C# doesn't seem to be good even is made to work great on Linux (like Mono does).

Did I miss a meeting, do you think that aliens build the pyramids and also that Miguel wanted to make Linux a Microsoft project?

[ciplogic]

And what's your point? Do apple or google get my money when I use cups or webkit that originally comes from KDE? Can they use patents against me? (...).

In fact they can! Patents are regardless of where the spec comes from! You can take GCC and you can make a GIMPLE (the internal language of GCC) to run on OpenCL, and yes, your implementation can be patent encumbered. A clean room implementation like Mono for example does not have issues with MS patents, but JavaScriptCore or WebKit can use some Apple patents (for example to work with automatic layout based on colons that are closer to the view of the phone). I hope you understand this.

If Apple enforces these patents, you will not have a good browser experience on the future KDE Phone project (if it will ever exist). If you will use Mono, you may use the native browser on the phone and you will not have any issue as the issue does not lie in Mono's implementation.(Linux friendly Google may pay to Apple some money for this layouting in WebKit).

[jayrulez]

Do you base your desktop environment on Samba? Does Samba serve MS or rather Linux?

First, we would need a clear definition of "anti Linux companies".

Do you base your desktop environment on Samba? Does Samba serve MS or rather Linux?

Does MONO serve MS or rather Linux?

Do most of the proprietary packages found in your Linux distribution support some anti Linux companies or just help Linux running some devices?

Using Samba proliferates the use of MS APIs as much as Mono does.

Samba, Firefox, gtk+ don't come from MS or Apple, so I recommend you to stop making yourself a fool. Such strawman examples don't work on me.

Mono does not come from MS or Apple either.

Your statements are neither consistent nor coherent.

[Del_]

If you print on Linux you're using CUPS, an Apple project.

Or look at Webkit, whose biggest contributors are Apple and Google. Is that project good or evil? Why? Why not?

Last time I checked the history Apple needed to be forced to release webkit. The only reason was that webkit was a (hostile) khtml fork, and hence licensed under GPL. Since then it seems Apple has been on a crusade to destroy everything GPL. Re-implementing Samba, drawing deverlopers away from GCC, banning GPL software from all IOS devices. The Apple we see to day was built on the very same GPL software they now try to ruin. It makes me incredibly sad to see the VLC project go through the tedious work of relicensing just to get into the app store.

To make things worse, I see supporters of open software misguided into thinking no-license is the way forward, totally misguided on the legal implications of throwing code over the fence without a license. Microsoft seems to have succeeded with their mixed source campaign, designed to confuse the open community into a non-productive chaos.

No I am not particularly fond of the business model behind Qt, but there is a safety net, and we need somebody to fund the development. We need to keep a close eye on Digia, but there is no need to crucify them. They have done a very good job of accommodating so far.

With regards to Mono, I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the Android and IOS SDKs are only available through commercial licenses. These are todays two most important platforms for which Digia has made no attempt closing down the code. Instead Digia puts all their weight into getting a professional open stack for us covering all relevant platforms. Qt charts is basically the only problematic spot, and it is for historic reasons. Moreover, from my understanding Xamarin will not provide IDE at all for Android or IOS on linux. To me this is a clear sign that Xamarin is now a destructive force for linux.

[ciplogic]

(...)
With regards to Mono, I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the Android and IOS SDKs are only available through commercial licenses. These are todays two most important platforms for which Digia has made no attempt closing down the code. Instead Digia puts all their weight into getting a professional open stack for us covering all relevant platforms. Qt charts is basically the only problematic spot, and it is for historic reasons. Moreover, from my understanding Xamarin will not provide IDE at all for Android or IOS on linux. To me this is a clear sign that Xamarin is now a destructive force for linux.

In fact Mono's code (runtime and classes) is opensource. Mono was ported to Android by community (before it was MonoDroid then Mono for Android). What Xamarin gives to you is certainly a full package (that costs time to QA, integrate, etc.) and yes, I am sure that some parts are closed source. It was and is still the same in Qt.

As you seem to understand that most companies give a mixed source (some OSS some commercial), what Linux benefit are the bits that get accessible into Linux. Based on this logic, Xamarin (or Novell before) contributed millions of line of code more than NVidia and if you use Banshee music player you will benefit directly from them.

The new IDE from Xamarin is built on top of MonoDevelop, so the main thing to do in MonoDevelop is to be fixed. It will fix also the Xamarin's IDE, and that's really fine, I think. When Linux or GCC is improved, both free (as source and freedoms) and commercial software runs better in Linux.

[Luke_Wolf]

In fact Mono's code (runtime and classes) is opensource. Mono was ported to Android by community (before it was MonoDroid then Mono for Android). What Xamarin gives to you is certainly a full package (that costs time to QA, integrate, etc.) and yes, I am sure that some parts are closed source. It was and is still the same in Qt.

Is this community port still actively maintained? If so where can I get it? It would be nice to have that extra tool in my kit.

[directhex]

Is this community port still actively maintained? If so where can I get it? It would be nice to have that extra tool in my kit.

It's not, no. It was done a while ago by Koushik Dutta, and was used to demonstrate how bad Dalvik was (Mono was 30x faster)

[ciplogic]

Is this community port still actively maintained? If so where can I get it? It would be nice to have that extra tool in my kit.

The monodroid part (the old package) is not so actively developed (because is the wrapping part, that once done correctly you don't have to tune it over and over):

https://github.com/mono/monodroid-bindings

The runtime is still the same:

https://github.com/mono/mono

(there is nothing fancy in Android's port of Mono, look for user: spouliot that commits really often in MonoTouch or Mono for Android related fixes in the public repository)

As for actively maintained, I think it isn't. In fact for Google's NaCl, Mono port is really not such of a port, but are instructions how to patch Mono source and to do a cross-compile. Who knows, maybe Xamarin will offer someday a Mono for NaCl

[Guest]

Does Xamarin get money from you writing a Gtk# app on Linux?

I don't care and this doesn't matter. They get more attention and credit mostly goes to M$. Why do you expect I'll support anti Linux competition? It's dumb stupid. I recommend you to go to M$ and tell them they should drop c# crap and use Qt.

[Guest]

Just wait, I'll bet his answer will be something along the lines of "DOESN'T MATTER THEY SUPPORT MICROSOFT AND THEY MUST DIE."

Exactly and you're idiotic irony won't change reality.