GNOME 3.x Will Bring Back Some GNOME 2 Features

[gens]

@kigurai
thats actually a good plan, you got a nice setup there

only problem i got with it is that i dont like tabed terminals so i got a minimum of 3 terminals per virtual desktop



isnt the point of the desktop environment to give you windows/apps/whatever and stay out of your way ?
i want 3+ terminals in one virtual desktop, so gnome3 users will hate me and call me a troll ?

but for a more normal(firefox only) user gnome3 is pretty good
i got it on the computer my family uses

[kigurai]

only problem i got with it is that i dont like tabed terminals so i got a minimum of 3 terminals per virtual desktop

isnt the point of the desktop environment to give you windows/apps/whatever and stay out of your way ?
i want 3+ terminals in one virtual desktop, so gnome3 users will hate me and call me a troll ?

but for a more normal(firefox only) user gnome3 is pretty good
i got it on the computer my family uses

I can't speak for all "GNOME3 users", but personally I could not care less how you organize your work. Do whatever fits you best.
What I do not like is the constant "GNOME3 is not for people doing real work" (like your comment above), because it is arrogant, and not true.
And most of all, it is not constructive at all. It helps no one.

[gens]

hmm, yes it can be interpreted as arrogant
i apologies if it insulted you, let me clarify

real work can be done on ANY desktop environment
actually if you dont need firefox, it can be done on a tty easily

my point is that gnome3 is due to its little quirks not so good as for example gnome2 or any other with tabs or a "normal" alt+tab behavior


also sry i wasnt clear, the point about calling ppl trolls because they think differently was due to some post 1-2 pages ago where some1 called such user a troll
it was not pointed at you

and i did say something constructive, i sayd that grouping tasks in alt+tab is bad for having many similar windows open
like having firefox open and a commercial opens another firefox window and starts playing jingles or just wastes your cpu with useless flash ads


its not about complaining about "my stile dosent work so good here", its about not being able to change any basic behavior and having a stile forced upon you
do your thing but respect others

[kigurai]

hmm, yes it can be interpreted as arrogant
i apologies if it insulted you, let me clarify

No harm done!

my point is that gnome3 is due to its little quirks not so good as for example gnome2 or any other with tabs or a "normal" alt+tab behavior

And there we disagree.

and i did say something constructive, i sayd that grouping tasks in alt+tab is bad for having many similar windows open

I think it works well. I have no problem using it with e.g. Matlab, which spawns lot of windows.

its not about complaining about "my stile dosent work so good here", its about not being able to change any basic behavior and having a stile forced upon you
do your thing but respect others

Yes, GNOME changed. And people were pissed. The rational thing to do is either see if the new style works for you, or find something else. I am not sure where the "spew hate on Internet" part fits in. Also, not directed at you personally, but you do keep suggesting that GNOME3 is objectively worse. Which I doubt is true, if it is even measurable.

[GreatEmerald]

so in my opinion it is obvious that gnome3 was made for a tablet, not for a desktop

You do realise that tablets usually do not come with a keyboard to begin with, right?

From what I'm reading, GNOME 3 must be horrible for tablets. It relies on hotkeys and uses LLVMpipe, with which the low-powered devices have a whole lot of problems.

[johnc]

I don't see any reason to apologize.

I don't doubt that a person can get "real work" done with GNOME Shell. And a person can also clean the carpet with a lint roller. I just question the sanity of any person that would choose to use it for such cases when there are better options available -- including plain old Windows.

Hey if you can make it work for you and enjoy it and all that, I'm not going to dissuade you from using it.

I'm just going to call you nuts, that's all.

[kigurai]

I don't see any reason to apologize.

Then don't.

I don't doubt that a person can get "real work" done with GNOME Shell. And a person can also clean the carpet with a lint roller. I just question the sanity of any person that would choose to use it for such cases when there are better options available -- including plain old Windows.

As pointed out, YMMV. Having used both extensively I can safely say that I like GNOME3 better. Apart from the Internet, I have not met a single person that have had any difficulties working with GNOME3.
And all these people manage to get work done. As far as I know, we are all sane. Although after about 10 posts here, I am starting to doubt on my own sanity

[gens]

@kigurai

i couldnt agree more that UI design is a subjective thing
but this is no small project where a few people can get together and say "we will make the desktop we wanna use and not care about others"

as that kind of way of thinking shows how much the people that make that decisions care about their, what was at the time huge, userbase
why should i as a person that loved gnome2 and its customizability respect their decisions

in fact i took my subjectivity in account and just told what bothers me with gnome3
when it came out i also sayd what i like about gnome3, and theres plenty things i do

every DE has good and bad sides, if you think any is perfect you didnt try enough of them

and to quote from GitS "overspecialization is death"


@GreatEmerald

you can easily do anything with mouse only, meaning that you can do anything with fingers only
everything is big and drag-able
maybe i didnt spend enough time reading the keyboard shortcuts, but there were many things i couldnt do with standard kb shortcuts

even if you need a monster tablet to use it normaly, it still looks and acts like something you'd expect from some good android gui
aint it ironic

[gens]

As pointed out, YMMV. Having used both extensively I can safely say that I like GNOME3 better. Apart from the Internet, I have not met a single person that have had any difficulties working with GNOME3.
And all these people manage to get work done. As far as I know, we are all sane. Although after about 10 posts here, I am starting to doubt on my own sanity

sanity and internet dont mix dont even try to make sense of all the people posting things (including ofc myself)
on the other hand, on the internet youl find ppl from different cultures with far different views on what matters then your own culture

in the end if you like something, nobody's opinion should even matter at all; unless ofc the person if off to destroy what you like so much

but i dont see how anyone would like their windows grouped
maybe im just wrong

bla, who cares, im done making sense
time to get something usefull done

[Tundra]

Assuming that you're actually asking this question, you can maximize a window more easily by dragging it to the window edge you would like it to fill (top to fill the whole screen), or if your screen is especially large, just double-click on any portion of the titlebar. This is clearly much easier than aiming for a square button on the edge of a window, but perhaps not as discoverable as some would like.

Are you seriously telling us that holding a button pressed while moving the mouse is easier than a single click? Really? Have you ever watched somebody with limited mobility do that? Are you saying it's easier to remember a different behavior for each edge of the screen than a single button? Are you crazy? Gnome used to be one of the more accessible desktops. Used to, not any longer.

And what do you consider an "screen especially large"? I have a 27" main screen and two 17" auxiliary screens, and I don't consider any of them or the sum of them to be especially large, in fact I run out of space pretty often.

So far as minimizing goes, GNOME is trying to avoid the behavior of hiding applications in an abstracted list. It's not a very natural behavior, and it may only seem so because most of us have been using task lists for a very long time. They don't represent much, and they are usually small targets for the mouse.

Not a natural behavior? Tell me you have never been caught by your mom/(girl/boy)friend/boss looking at a comic/porn/something and wanted to hide
it behind the table/desk? Same goes for windows in a computer, sometimes you need/want to hide things, and changing to a different area/desktop doesn't do the trick, because when they tell you to show them a web/picture/document you go to choose/create a different area and they can see all the already existent areas, including what you wanted to hide.

If you end up with more windows on the screen than you can manage, you can easily begin categorizing them in the overview. I understand that sometimes you don't always have a clear idea of how to group tasks, so a trick I like to use is middle-clicking the titlebar to send the window I've been looking at back.

And what do I do when I need to look at multiple windows wich hold input data I need to use for my current task? I NEED a lot of windows in the same screen, and It was easy to manage with gnome 2.xx, not any more with 3.x. Changing windows every few seconds isn't an option, I NEED them visible for a SINGLE TASK.

To be clear, while the overview is a good, natural way to manage tasks, the designers are aware of the issues with certain workflows and they're still trying to come up with better solutions to those problems.

So you admit you had something that WORKED, but wanted a change and shoved down OUR throats what YOU think is better, even when you KNOW it has flaws that can get in the way of the users.

Aside from that, GNOME tries to encourage you to focus on one task at a time, as reduced distractions are better for your productivity. Of course, if you're not working on anything that may just mean helping you focus better on having fun.

What happens when you NEED to manage multiple tasks simultaneously? Then GNOME gets in your way and stops you from working properly, because somebody thinks its better that way.

In my daily job, I have to monitor a lot of things that may or may not raise visual alarms any second (so multiple windows at the same time), do some minor tasks while keeping an eye on those alarms, and every few minutes shove the minor tasks aside (minimize) to attend one of those alarms or any unscheduled events (while still keeping an eye on the alarms). If I change to a second viewing area to use a maximized window, I can't see the alarms in the first area, so that is a BIG NO!!! to GNOME 3 new workflow.

In my own time, I usually have an IM app maximized on screen 1, a movie on auxiliary screen 3 and anything else on screen 2. If I'm reading my mail (thunderbird/evolution/claws/...) and click a link to open it in the browser, and then switch to a different area/desktop where my browser is, GNOME changes my 3 screens and I can't see whether somebody started talking to me. I could mark the media player window as visible on all desktops, but what happens to the IM multiple windows? That's only ONE example, me, but there are a LOT of people out there, with different use cases you DON'T KNOW.

Not to mention that mutter does have minimize and maximize, they just arent enabled by default.

That's the best part of GNOME. The "we have this functionality, so let's hide it because our users are so retarded they get confused by it, we know better after all because we are geniuses" mentality and attitude.

I've been a GNOME user since for a looong time, since I tried it with Debian 1.3.1. I've tried many alternatives during this years and always came back. Now I'm ashamed of supporting GNOME, and trying the alternatives again, but if things continue the way the are now, this time I won't be back