GNOME & Mono Made Love At Microsoft Last Week

[0xBADCODE]

He didn't argue that they were good, he argued that they are currently successful, which goes against the "Microsoft kill all partners" assertion, which is irrelevant
Sure, sometimes fly manages to escape from the web of their spider "partner" . So let's replace "all" with "most" if you really care.

to the article anyway since there's no partnership between GNOME and Microsoft.

It's only boring office clerks and lawyers who cares about formal stuff. And I bet that at the end of day "love" would mean "MS attempts to f...k up gnome".

[0xBADCODE]

I repeat my earlier question: which projects can you name written in Go or D?

I would admit that there is also no any worthy software written on Mono as well. You see, I seen only 2 or 3 programs and they all were really horrible. Slow, awful startup times, almost 100Mb of dependencies... just for some awkward and inconvenient photo manager and some notes program? Fairly laughable. I can use dozen and half of other programs for doing the same and they don't need huge, slow, bloated, bugged and incomplete runtime to run. Phew, I don't need third-rate sw and runtime.

[directhex]

almost 100Mb of dependencies...

Another easily disproved lie.

http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/416/

http://weblog.savanne.be/files/fosdem-mono-2011/packaging.pdf

Why can't you argue your point without lying? It suggests you're on very shaky ground.

[directhex]

It's only boring office clerks and lawyers who cares about formal stuff.

So you don't care about accuracy, as long as you scare people off Free Software you don't like? Figures.

And I bet that at the end of day "love" would mean "MS attempts to f...k up gnome".

Really? How much do you bet, exactly? Put your money where your mouth is, if you believe what you're saying.

[makomk]

what?? A patent for delegate and event? delegate is basicly a function pointer and event is already in many language before dotnet. So I do not think it exist... Can you point me to it?

It's this patent right here: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6951022/claims.html

I think you are talking about C# and not dotnet... anyway the C# is patent-free because it is a standard (http://www.ecma-international.org/pu...s/Ecma-334.htm)

That doesn't mean that it's patent-free. It means that Microsoft has to license standards-essential patents under RAND terms (which doesn't help open source software much, incidentally). If there's any part of the ECMA-defined APIs that would infringe on this patent they've granted a royalty-free license to use this patent for the limited purpose of implementing those APIs. The problem is that Gtk# is not part of .Net and Microsoft - for obvious reasons - hasn't granted any kind of patent license to code that uses .Net in ways that infringe its patents.

[directhex]

The problem is that Gtk# is not part of .Net and Microsoft - for obvious reasons - hasn't granted any kind of patent license to code that uses .Net in ways that infringe its patents.

An easily provable lie.

Delegates are defined in ECMA 335 section I.8.9.3

ECMA 335 comes with a full patent grant from Microsoft for all implementations, as per http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifi...e/default.aspx

Funnily enough, what is *not* covered by that grant, but *potentially* infringes on that patent is other languages implementing C#-style delegates, such as Vala.

[lapis]

The .NET standard was written by the following:

• Eiffel Software
• Kahu Research
• Microsoft Corporation
• Novell Corporation
• Twin Roots
• Borland
• Fujitsu Software Corporation
• Hewlett-Packard
• Intel Corporation
• IBM Corporation
• IT University of Copenhagen
• Jagger Software Ltd.
• Monash University
• Netscape
• Phone.Com
• Plum Hall
• Sun Microsystems

How many of those are Microsoft, exactly?



Is PyPy a CPython alternative? Is LuaJIT a Lua alternative? Oh, wait, Mono is different because LOOK BEHIND YOU A THREE HEADED MONKEY



Why not? Perl and Python coexist without idiots shitting their pants.



Right, so? Which alternatives system does Windows provide which Mono could use, precisely?



Well, Mono's runtime is LGPL, so that's okay!



Eiffel? Christ, you're really happy to scrape the barrel to avoid good tech.

I repeat my earlier question: which projects can you name written in Go or D?

You don t understand .If I want to propose a new language for opensource, Go and D can be a good solution alternative to C and C++.They are compiled languages and don t use VMs.Python already have a "VM".And a lot of code is writen using python. Python is good.And does not need to be replaced like mono guys try to do.Pypy can be a good replacement to Cpython on linux distros.


Haha ,mono have a lot of Microsoft and Mit code.And projects like banshee use Mit Licenses. Icaza promotes Mit licenses.

Yes ,pypy is a good alternative to cpython.Mono does not promote opensource on windows and try not to be a alternative to .NET.Instead they try to promote Microsoft.NET on windows and linux.Monodevelop web site requieres MS .net to work on windows. GTK requres .NET on windows and don t detect mono as alternative.
Mono does not run GTK sharp on windows.

And yes ,.Net is a Microsoft standard.They control the implementation.They control the future of implementation.Mono only copies the .NET implementation.Mono does not have a voice on .NET .


And eiffel is a very good languague with a very powerful IDE.Eiffel studio is free software.

[directhex]

You don t understand .If I want to propose a new language for opensource, Go and D can be a good solution alternative to C and C++.They are compiled languages and don t use VMs.Python already have a "VM".And a lot of code is writen using python. Python is good.And does not need to be replaced like mono guys try to do.Pypy can be a good replacement to Cpython on linux distros.

I thought the problem was Mono folk wanted Mono to be a legitimate choice alongside Python. Now it's replacing it? Get your argument straight. Oh, and by using IronPython, both languages can be installed side by side without any of Python's bloat.

Haha ,mono have a lot of Microsoft and Mit code.And projects like banshee use Mit Licenses. Icaza promotes Mit licenses.

Mono has a bunch of Microsoft code where that Microsoft code is Free Software. Free Software is good, no matter who it's from.

As for MIT, it's encouraged where it makes life better for developers. For example, it's VERY common for developers on restricted versions of .NET like Micro Framework to copy pieces of the Mono class library into their projects, to fill in pieces missing from Microsoft's implementation.

MIT encourages code reuse, and is a better choice than GPL for any app with plugins. Developers should be free to pick the license they want to use - to write a plugin for a GPL app your plugin must be GPL, which removes freedom of license choice from the developer.

Yes ,pypy is a good alternative to cpython.

But you were insisting something is only an alternative if it seeks to eradicate all usage of its predecessor. Is this only the case with Mono, then (big surprise)?

Mono does not promote opensource on windows and try not to be a alternative to .NET.Instead they try to promote Microsoft.NET on windows and linux.Monodevelop web site requieres MS .net to work on windows. GTK requres .NET on windows and don t detect mono as alternative.

Mono for windows comes with GTK#

MonoDevelop for Windows doesn't support installing against Mono because, frankly, it's really hard to write an installer which can handle either .NET or Mono at the same time - and for the target user (Windows-based .NET developer), .NET is far more likely to already be there as a dependency.

Mono's goal is to promote happy developers, not your personal agenda.

Mono does not run GTK sharp on windows.

And yes ,.Net is a Microsoft standard.They control the implementation.They control the future of implementation.Mono only copies the .NET implementation.Mono does not have a voice on .NET .

Did you notice the list of companies I posted or not? Hint: Novell is on it. Xamarin will be on the next version.

And eiffel is a very good languague with a very powerful IDE.Eiffel studio is free software.

Unintentional hilarity: EiffelStudio is from Eiffel Software, who contributed to the design of .NET

[makomk]

An easily provable lie.

Delegates are defined in ECMA 335 section I.8.9.3

ECMA 335 comes with a full patent grant from Microsoft for all implementations, as per http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifi...e/default.aspx

Except the patent in question doesn't actually cover delegates, it covers one specific way of using delegates that Gtk# uses heavily. The Microsoft patent promise you've linked only guarantees that they won't use patent claims that are required in order to implement the required parts of the specification to sue you over a complete, conforment implemention of the specification. It makes no guarantees that they won't sue you for patent infringement in third-party APIs and libraries that aren't part of the .Net specification like Gtk#. Microsoft can lay as many patent traps as they like for people that try to use C# and .Net.

Funnily enough, what is *not* covered by that grant, but *potentially* infringes on that patent is other languages implementing C#-style delegates, such as Vala.

Potentially, depending on how exactly their delegates work and are used and how close they are to the prior art in this area.

Edit: actually, probably not. The patent claims require the use of C#-style events as well as delegates, and as far as I can tell Vala doesn't appear to have anything that corresponds to those.

[0xBADCODE]

Another easily disproved lie.

It's just a number reported by package manager when I ditched Mono from my Ubuntu. Though I wish you luck in fighting windmills and proving something to someone by doing so. But let's admit calling me liar for reporting just some observed fact would not improve my perception of mono and it's users/devs for sure. Yet another reason to think it used only by dumb MS drones.