GNOME & Mono Made Love At Microsoft Last Week

[directhex]

Ah, now I see what you're doing. Tricked me there for a moment.

Oh? Pray tell?

Yeah, you guys aren't exactly Wine, you know. You aren't trying to provide a tool to run .NET software on Linux. If that was the case, that would be fine and worthy of support.

Some people adapted Mono for that use case. It wasn't originally designed for that task, but the Free Software community stepped up and provided support for WinForms and ASP.NET, to help them run .NET software on Linux. But that's bad in RealNCLand, which doesn't bear much relationship to reality.

No. You're trying to adopt .NET for Linux applications. That's what's wrong with you people.

Why? Aren't developers adult enough to make their own decisions about technology? Or should all the developers in the world be phoning you to ask your permission before writing code?

[RealNC]

I'm helping hundreds of thousands of people to play games on Linux, via HIB.

Nothing against that. You're doing good.

I'm helping folk like Bulldog migrate away from Microsoft software, bit by bit.

By moving from one .NET implementation to another? How's that migrating away from Microsoft?

How about you? What's your contribution that makes you the saviour of Freedom, and me "in bed with Microsoft"?

I'm helping people create and run old-school adventure games on Linux instead of being tied to the Windows tools. Yes, very small target audience with much, much less impact, but that's what I do and it matters to the people I do it for.

[RealNC]

Some people adapted Mono for that use case. It wasn't originally designed for that task

Which it should have been. It's the only task it should be doing.

Why? Aren't developers adult enough to make their own decisions about technology? Or should all the developers in the world be phoning you to ask your permission before writing code?

They're free of course to do what they want. It just tells us something about Gnome developers. See? This discussion has come full circle. It's about my opinion of Gnome devs adopting .NET.

[directhex]

Which it should have been. It's the only task it should be doing.

Because you say so, and you're the high priest of Free Software. Got it.

They're free of course to do what they want. It just tells us something about Gnome developers. See? This discussion has come full circle. It's about my opinion of Gnome devs adopting .NET.

And by "adopting" you mean "not being actively hostile towards"

[RealNC]

Because you say so, and you're the high priest of Free Software. Got it.

Yes, I say so. I'm expressing my personal opinions. No, I'm not the high priest of Free Software. Any other questions?

And by "adopting" you mean "not being actively hostile towards"

Exactly. I'm not preaching anti-microsoftism. I'm preaching militant anti-microsoftism. (And yes, I'm paraphrasing Richard Dawkins.)

[directhex]

Nothing against that. You're doing good.

So running games on Linux which are written with .NET in mind is fine. Can I quote you on that?

By moving from one .NET implementation to another? How's that migrating away from Microsoft?

You don't see any value in dumping Windows Server for Debian, and Visual Source Safe for Subversion?

Presumably you don't see any value in people dumping Microsoft Internet Explorer for Firefox, or Microsoft Office for LibreOffice, either?

All or nothing?

I'm helping people create and run old-school adventure games on Linux instead of being tied to the Windows tools. Yes, very small target audience with much, much less impact, but that's what I do and it matters to the people I do it for.

And if a Free Software tool for that purpose existed, but was written with .NET, rather than saying "okay, let's get this bitch tested & cleaned up so Linux is a first class citizen" you'r run around screaming "UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!"?

[RealNC]

So running games on Linux which are written with .NET in mind is fine. Can I quote you on that?

For Windows games? Absolutely.

You don't see any value in dumping Windows Server for Debian, and Visual Source Safe for Subversion?

Presumably you don't see any value in people dumping Microsoft Internet Explorer for Firefox, or Microsoft Office for LibreOffice, either?

These are not relevant examples.

And if a Free Software tool for that purpose existed, but was written with .NET, rather than saying "okay, let's get this bitch tested & cleaned up so Linux is a first class citizen" you'r run around screaming "UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!"?

I'd prefer a native Linux version instead. I'd scream "UNCLEAN" if someone develops for Linux using .NET. If you're on Linux, you have SDL and OpenGL, which is very portable to begin with. For non game software, you have Gtk and Qt. Using .NET would be pure brain damage. Hm, I guess this pretty much suggests Gnome has developed brain damage.

[directhex]

For Windows games? Absolutely.

And multi-platform games? Let me guess, those developers are evil because they should have written it in GCC intrinsics from day 1.

Bastion good, Spacechem bad?

These are not relevant examples.

Why not?

Bulldog dumped several pieces of Microsoft software for Free alternatives. Microsoft license fees: reduced. Free Software deployment: increased. How is that not relevant to someone doing exactly the same thing the other way round - i.e. switching from closed apps on a closed OS to open apps on a closed OS, rather than Bulldog's case (closed apps on a closed OS to closed apps on an open OS)

I'd prefer a native Linux version instead. I'd scream "UNCLEAN" if someone develops for Linux using .NET.

".NET developers not welcome here, go back to where you came from" ?

[directhex]

If you're on Linux, you have SDL and OpenGL, which is very portable to begin with.

And you can develop SDL and OpenGL games in the language of your choice, not just C, using bindings - Python, Java, C#, whatever.

For non game software, you have Gtk and Qt. Using .NET would be pure brain damage. Hm, I guess this pretty much suggests Gnome has developed brain damage.

And you can develop Gtk and Qt apps in the language of your choice, not just C/C++, using bindings - Python, Java, C#, whatever.

[directhex]

FTFY.

Git > *

Sure. But that wasn't the anecdote provided by Bulldog, and even Svn is still better than VSS.