GNOME & Mono Made Love At Microsoft Last Week

[0xBADCODE]

Or people who already know C# and want to write apps.

Well, you've proven you're using windows. I'm sorry to inform you but Linux != Windows and would never be. So feel free to stay in windows. But don't expct to be warmly welcome in Linux with your windows ways of doing things. Both you and your third-rate code. It's like entering your neighbor house and trying to learn your neighbor to live by your own rules. The result would be angry neighbor who is testing his fist at your face.

[TheBlackCat]

Python and mono on same linux distro waste resources,because of 2 VM running on system.And linux already have 3 standard languages fo write apps.

Which 3 are those? C, C++, and...?

[0xBADCODE]

Well, how about you name exactly which Ubuntu release you were running, so I can prove that you're wrong?
Potentially?

Somewhere from 8.x to 11.x I guess. Though, honestly, you remember me Don Quixote with your futile attempts to prove mono runtime isn't crap. While in fact my original point is that it's just completely dumb to bring so many libs and foreign runtime for just 2 programs which are also have better replacement. Regardless of exact nubmers. Not to mention GTK# is still not fully ported to GTK3 as far as I know. Teh FAIL.

that a bare-bones Mono installation is smaller than almost every other competitor, including Qt. We build Mono into 201 different packages - you only ever need the absolute bare minimum installed. And because .NET is designed to be hierarchical rather than spaghetti like Java, minimal installs are possible.

You see, Qt or GTK is used by dozen and half of good programs in my system. And you see, Gtk, Qt and Java are all releasing the same version of libs/runtime for each platform they're support. So if you use Qt4, you can run both on windows, mac, linux and everywhere else Qt compiles and runs. But mono is not a case. As far as I know it's only somewhere between .NET 2 and 3. While .NET is already 4.50. If MS treats linux as third rate, I don't see why we don't have to treat their runtime as third rate. Because it is, when it comes to Linux. You see, Java on Linux and Windows have the same version. Unlike mono/.net. And no crossplatform widgets set unlike in Java, GTK, Qt, etc. This is clearly for masochists who want to look as third rate in linux.

Christ, you are obsessed about cruft in a header. Sometimes legacy bullshit ends up in places. Java uses .zip for .jar compression rather than something modern and compact, but I don't freak out about that.

It's rather .class files who correspond to EXEs. Zips are rather correspond to MSIs or CABs. Zip is a nice balance between (de)compression speed and compression strength. Zlib/deflate still in use in many areas these days for this reason. It's also fairly easy format to parse yet it's extensible enough.

It's not like if MS haves a better archive format, btw . For example, MSI is quite an awkward thing at all and their CABs are quite dumb and restricted format, even worse than zip in this regard. And MSI installer is definitely worst package manager I ever seen.

So you're the one setting the rules for who is welcome and who is not?

I'm using Linux. It's my house. You would not be welcome here. Simple?

See, maybe this is the problem - I have a fundamental difference of opinion from you about what Free Software and Freedom mean.

Sure, everyone is free to do what they want. In particular I'm completely free to show middle finger to you and your third rate code/runtime and boot it out of my house. I really don't need third rate runtimes. If MS wants to be considered anyhow seriously, they have to stop discriminating competitors at least. You see, GTK, Qt or Java don't attempt to prove one OS is better than other. They are releasing versions synchronously for all systems and source for those who who wants to try to build/port self in cusom environments. But you see, there is no mono anyhow equal to .NET 4.5, isn't it? That's what I call third rate runtime and third-rate support of crossplatform programming

I believe everyone should be welcome to contribute to making the Free Software ecosystem better. They should feel welcome, and have access to all the tools they need.

From my standpoint it does not makes Free Software anyhow better. And when every second program installs .net for half of hour, it's annoying enough. As for me it's better if this annoyance will be win-only.

Hell, I packaged up a Visual Basic.NET compiler. Not because it's a good language (it's not, it's terrible) but because if someone comes along who goes to a University where they teach using VB.NET, then I want that person to feel welcome on Linux.

My house isn't a garbage bin, sir. So if you got some useless garbage somewhere, stay away. Would you welcome me if I would come and try to offload some garbage at your house just because ... because it's the best thing I managed to get so far and don't want to trash it?

Seriously, those who can't go further and learn something better than VB.net would be better working in nearest McDonald's or whereever they can. You see, you will really dislike me as Chef in restaurant you visit. Because I'm not so great at cooking as you would expect from Chef. I can cook something but you would expect it better from Chef. And at the end I would have a bad reputation. That's why I wouldn't be Chef ever. Same goes for programmers. If you about to go to Linux and want to be considered as real programmer, you would be really better learning something else. Attempt to reuse MS skills on Linux is rather futile and isn't really going to work well. Tell thanks to MS who lobbied it to happen this way.

Because when you're on Free Software, anything should be possible. No limitations. Certainly no moralizing from non-contributors saying "NO, YOU CANNOT DO THAT, YOU FREEDOM HAS LIMITS I WANT TO IMPOSE"

Laws always restricting some freedoms. For example I cant catch you and torture you and then go unpunished. This limits my freedoms, right? But that's for good, don't you think so? One thing to think on: The freedom of one ends where freedom of others starts.

Btw, I never forbid you to do something (this is technically impossible anyway, lol). I'm just using my freedom to express my perception of all this crappy activity

[directhex]

Python and mono on same linux distro waste resources,because of 2 VM running on system.And linux already have 3 standard languages fo write apps.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

A typical desktop Linux system has stuff written in

• Perl
• Python
• Shell script
• C
• C++
• Vala
• Javascript
• QML
• Java
• C#
• Ruby

There is no "standard language" for Free Software development. People have the freedom to work in whatever language they want - and they do! That's one of Free Software's strengths. The only ones who seem to think there should be some reduction in choice are non-contributors.

Mono people needs to promote mono for .NET develpers and windows users.Not linux users.

Why? And they do already - look at how many developers are being attracted to Linux ports of indie games thanks to projects like Unity3D or MonoGame.

I know mono for windows is bundled with Gtk#,But when you install monodevelop ,gtk# is not detected.

The GTK# bundled with Mono for Windows is installed to the Mono Global Assembly Cache. The MonoDevelop download from monodevelop.com is built for Microsoft.NET, for the previously stated reasons - and the Microsoft.NET Global Assembly Cache is different to the Mono GAC.

The point of the Mono for Windows install is to be standalone. It doesn't molest the .NET GAC at all, to add any Mono libraries - GTK#, Mono.Cairo, Mono.Sqlite, etc. MonoDevelop is correct in saying GTK# is not installed, because as far as Microsoft.NET is concerned, it isn't.

[directhex]

Well, you've proven you're using windows. I'm sorry to inform you but Linux != Windows and would never be. So feel free to stay in windows. But don't expct to be warmly welcome in Linux with your windows ways of doing things. Both you and your third-rate code. It's like entering your neighbor house and trying to learn your neighbor to live by your own rules. The result would be angry neighbor who is testing his fist at your face.

I've never written software for Windows - my last serious engagement with Windows development was Delphi 3.0 before I went to University.

I taught myself C# using Mono on Ubuntu, when I looked at a series of languages to do a new project (after Perl failed miserably at maintainability) and found it to be an excellent choice.

And, again, you are not the gatekeeper for Free Software engagement (thank fuck). If you were even slightly involved, if anyone gave a shit about your input, then you'd have some actual portfolio to point to.

[directhex]

Somewhere from 8.x to 11.x I guess. Though, honestly, you remember me Don Quixote with your futile attempts to prove mono runtime isn't crap. While in fact my original point is that it's just completely dumb to bring so many libs and foreign runtime for just 2 programs which are also have better replacement. Regardless of exact nubmers. Not to mention GTK# is still not fully ported to GTK3 as far as I know. Teh FAIL.

tl;dr: "I LIED, STOP CALLING ATTENTION TO IT"

As far as I know it's only somewhere between .NET 2 and 3

You don't know much.

It's not like if MS haves a better archive format, btw . For example, MSI is quite an awkward thing at all and their CABs are quite dumb and restricted format, even worse than zip in this regard. And MSI installer is definitely worst package manager I ever seen.

You're the Windows expert here. I have no idea about making MSI or CAB files.

I'm using Linux. It's my house. You would not be welcome here. Simple?

It's not your house. It's everyone's house. That's the entire point of Free Software. Jesus tittyfucking Christ you really hate the idea of Freedom don't you?

Sure, everyone is free to do what they want. In particular I'm completely free to show middle finger to you and your third rate code/runtime and boot it out of my house. I really don't need third rate runtimes. If MS wants to be considered anyhow seriously, they have to stop discriminating competitors at least. You see, GTK, Qt or Java don't attempt to prove one OS is better than other. They are releasing versions synchronously for all systems and source for those who who wants to try to build/port self in cusom environments. But you see, there is no mono anyhow equal to .NET 4.5, isn't it? That's what I call third rate runtime and third-rate support of crossplatform programming

From my standpoint it does not makes Free Software anyhow better. And when every second program installs .net for half of hour, it's annoying enough. As for me it's better if this annoyance will be win-only.

So your complaints about Mono are... that you don't like Microsoft.NET on Windows?

Why is it the most rabid anti-Mono fanatics are so obsessed with Windows? And are the biggest Windows users? You don't understand why Mono exists, or what it offers, or why people use it, you just know "WHAA I DON'T LIKE APP A, SO APP B IS SHIT". You're not very bright.

My house isn't a garbage bin, sir. So if you got some useless garbage somewhere, stay away. Would you welcome me if I would come and try to offload some garbage at your house just because ... because it's the best thing I managed to get so far and don't want to trash it?

You're free to do what you want on your system. Fuck you for telling everyone else what they can do with theirs.

Seriously, those who can't go further and learn something better than VB.net would be better working in nearest McDonald's or whereever they can. You see, you will really dislike me as Chef in restaurant you visit. Because I'm not so great at cooking as you would expect from Chef. I can cook something but you would expect it better from Chef. And at the end I would have a bad reputation. That's why I wouldn't be Chef ever. Same goes for programmers. If you about to go to Linux and want to be considered as real programmer, you would be really better learning something else. Attempt to reuse MS skills on Linux is rather futile and isn't really going to work well. Tell thanks to MS who lobbied it to happen this way.

I get plenty of people asking for help getting their VB.NET apps to run on Ubuntu. I want to help them, not be a shitface to them. That's the difference between them.

Laws always restricting some freedoms. For example I cant catch you and torture you and then go unpunished. This limits my freedoms, right? But that's for good, don't you think so? One thing to think on: The freedom of one ends where freedom of others starts.

Is that a threat?

Btw, I never forbid you to do something (this is technically impossible anyway, lol). I'm just using my freedom to express my perception of all this crappy activity

You're telling people what they should or should not be permitted to do with their time. I don't tell Python developers what they can or cannot do. I don't tell Erlang or Lisp or Ada developers what they can or cannot do. I think everyone should be free to do what they like. You don't - you think people should only be permitted to follow your whims.

[lapis]

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

A typical desktop Linux system has stuff written in

There is no "standard language" for Free Software development. People have the freedom to work in whatever language they want - and they do! That's one of Free Software's strengths. The only ones who seem to think there should be some reduction in choice are non-contributors.

Please,stop personal attacks Jo Shields.

Wrong.There are 3 standard languages on a default linux distro(or 4 depending the case) .C,C++ and Python and Perl sometimes.And another VM language requires more resources and we cant include a Microsoft language on a linux standard..Like mono evangelists tried with ubuntu.Incluiding software with permissive licenses like banshee of hell.

Why? And they do already - look at how many developers are being attracted to Linux ports of indie games thanks to projects like Unity3D or MonoGame.

This is not help microsoft devs to change for mono,but it helps microsoft devs write .NET apps to run on linux.This is not to promote mono as alternative to MS .NET on windows.It's help lazy MS devs run on linux.

The GTK# bundled with Mono for Windows is installed to the Mono Global Assembly Cache. The MonoDevelop download from monodevelop.com is built for Microsoft.NET, for the previously stated reasons - and the Microsoft.NET Global Assembly Cache is different to the Mono GAC.

The point of the Mono for Windows install is to be standalone. It doesn't molest the .NET GAC at all, to add any Mono libraries - GTK#, Mono.Cairo, Mono.Sqlite, etc. MonoDevelop is correct in saying GTK# is not installed, because as far as Microsoft.NET is concerned, it isn't.

[/QUOTE]

Mono devs does not help the user configure a free alternative to MS.NET.Even monodevelop requires MS .NET.

[directhex]

Please,stop personal attacks Jo Shields.

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them" -- Thomas Jefferson

Wrong.There are 3 standard languages on a default linux distro(or 4 depending the case) .C,C++ and Python and Perl sometimes.

Ever heard of GNOME Shell? Javascript.

Ever heard of GIMP? Scheme.

And another VM language requires more resources

You never mentioned which resources you felt were being cannibalized. Disk space? RAM? Pixie dust?

and we cant include a Microsoft language on a linux standard.

Except for Javascript

.Like mono evangelists tried with ubuntu.

Mono shipped by default with Ubuntu for more than five years. It was pulled because Qt is too bloated to leave any room for Mono.

Incluiding software with permissive licenses like banshee of hell.

An awful lot of your system is under permissive licenses. But Mono is different because LOOK BEHIND YOU A THREE-HEADED MONKEY.

This is not help microsoft devs to change for mono,but it helps microsoft devs write .NET apps to run on linux.This is not to promote mono as alternative to MS .NET on windows.It's help lazy MS devs run on linux.

So cross-platform is bad, and more games for Linux is bad? Gotcha.

Mono devs does not help the user configure a free alternative to MS.NET.Even monodevelop requires MS .NET.

We've been over this.

MonoDevelop for Windows is provided in an easy-to-install-and-use format. More users have .NET installed, so it's easier to make the installer target .NET

MonoDevelop actually detects all installed versions of Mono on the system, and lets you build/run your apps with them, regardless of what version of .NET you're running MD itself with - see the Preferences/.NET Runtimes settings screen, and the Run/Run With menu. It means you can easily test your app in both new and old versions of Mono, to check for regressions or behaviour changes. Convenient and easy.

[jmartins]

Tks Microsoft, you are saving the Linux!!!!

Microsoft is so good so why I need linux?

come on!!!


regards!
Jo?o martins

[directhex]

Tks Microsoft, you are saving the Linux!!!!

Microsoft is so good so why I need linux?

come on!!!


regards!
Jo?o martins

You're very strange.