Originally posted by NomadDemon
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Many Ubuntu Users Still Hate The Unity Desktop
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Last edited by kraftman; 04 August 2011, 05:41 PM.
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Originally posted by raulromania View Posttitle +1
gnome-shell ftw
i won't support the idiots they wasted money on developing unity. if they putted all the "power" into gnome-shell, everybody were satisfied.
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I like Unity, but it was buggy for me that I gave up on it and switched back to Gnome 2.32. My display would just hang - I could click on the menu bar on the left side of the screen, but everything to the right of it would not respond to mouse clicks. It happened so often I stopped using it. This was Ubuntu 11.04 64-bit, AMD Radeon HD 5770 card, AMD 11.4, 11.5, or 11.6 drivers for the card. Under Gnome 2.32 and XFCE I did not have any problems with losing response to mouse clicks.
I understand Ubuntu is all volunteer and I don't hate Ubuntu, Ubuntu developers, Mark Shuttleworth, or anyone else for Unity. I just can't use it myself until this is resolved, and I don't have the expertise or time to triage the problem myself. XFCE and GNOME 2.32 work right out of the box, so I'm sticking with them until further notice.
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Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View PostSo what?
And your "so what" answer was pure senseless off topic trolling.
So stop wasting my time.
Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View PostLinux is just a kernel, a very boring uninteresting part for non geeks. You can compare it with an engine control unit in a car, it's important for the car to operate but not very interesting to the average consumer. People buy a Mercedes because of its looks, reputation or as a status symbol, not because of the engine control unit.
In summary:
- A Mercedes is a collection of parts manufactured and assembled to a certain specification.
- Ubuntu is a collection of software packages assembled to a certain specification.
The Linux kernel is just one of those software packages. An important one, but like I said not of any interest to the end user.
When microsoft writes windows uses NT kernel, it does not try to cover it nor posting explanations why it does so.
When any operating system carries name other that its kernel, it does not try to cover it.
Yet ubuntu covers it due to huge marketing size and even tries to associate whole linux and foss with itself at same time doing nothing, but marketing.
Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View PostLOL, the "sane Buddhist" is just as well a stereotype, a religious stereotype disseminated by Hollywood. Here's your "sane buddhists".
Guess who those white men among those "sane buddhists" are... They are German Nazi's, something Hollywood doesn't want to tell you.
As for Linus, he's not an ideologue, he's just a pompous man with a big ego who named a kernel after himself and likes to stay in control of it for too long, just like a petty dictator.
Just because Hitler and Co marched in Tibet for whatever stupidity they were building together (Ahnenerbe and similar BS) and were welcomed by Tibetans, because they(Tibetans) are one of the most enlightened, opened and forgiving people on this dirty planet, with most clean and unoffensive religion(science) based solely on observation, who didn?t know whom they actually met - you conclude nazi BS and tibet are affiliated?
Man, go educate yourself, please, spend at least 5 years understanding Taoism and Buddhism, before you start looking as black hole of stupidity and trolling.
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Originally posted by crazycheese View PostSee? You admitted it. Ubuntu is marketing.
I have seen Mercedes Benz(unlike you) using Mercedes Benz motors and Mercedes Benz parts. Ubuntu has kernel "ubuntu" - right? Any "ubuntu" parts that are withing "ubuntu"? Ah, yes, Unity. Good point to start calling it Ubuntu, instead of Ubuntu Linux.
In summary:
- A Mercedes is a collection of parts manufactured and assembled to a certain specification.
- Ubuntu is a collection of software packages assembled to a certain specification.
The Linux kernel is just one of those software packages. An important one, but like I said not of any interest to the end user.
The point of my post is dead simple - Ubuntu, due to its excessive marketing associates FOSS and its brightest projects with one particular set of stereotypes.
When you go out and ask what is Linux, uneducated people will start sayin - its Ubuntu.
In fact nothing is wrong with African theming. Nothing is really wrong with "start button" or microsoft swastika either.
Too bad, good sane buddhists forgot to *TM* the swastika, as symbol of the Sun, the same way Linus did with Linux, so no one could steal it and associate it with something very dirty,wrong and completely opposite.
Guess who those white men among those "sane buddhists" are... They are German Nazi's, something Hollywood doesn't want to tell you.
As for Linus, he's not an ideologue, he's just a pompous man with a big ego who named a kernel after himself and likes to stay in control of it for too long, just like a petty dictator.
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Originally posted by blackiwid View Postgentoo kind of sucks and is kind of slowly dieing
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Originally posted by NomadDemon View Postcant use mandriva packages in fedora, or suse, and all this combination fails, debian and ubuntu are 99% compatible.
Just because RPMs had dependency tracking problem in the starts, doesn?t mean it ain?t fixed.
RPMs and DEBs are extremely similar.
They can not fix their content to magically link itself to everything perfectly - they?re just packages.
Your ubuntu packages will break on debian in 99,99% cases, or more exact formulated your ubuntu packages *contents*.
Originally posted by NomadDemon View Postbtw.. iam voting for unification for packages. "alien" suck.. cant convert 80% of packages i need
so.. no rpm and no deb, just one unified.
But in the case you are asking for binary universal format, you got it with windows in form of a huge binary-library-errata mess.
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Originally posted by m4n1sh View Postit does a LOT of marketing, but does very LITTLE to progress
Knee jerk reactions. All my hardware has worked out till now. Except for one USB connection to router which does not have any open source driver AFAIK
Originally posted by m4n1sh View Postit has marketing cult and tries to steal the focus from linux kernel, gnu, xorg on itself, claiming itself center of collaboration
So they want the non-technical end user to come and learn what is kernel, gnu, xorg internals and appreciate it? Non-techies can't even make out that DE is a component of OS. What should Ubuntu do? In the About page write "We bring you the best OS which contains The Linux Kernel, GNU, XORG blah blah". By this time most of the people would have stopped reading the About page
Analysing typical idiot behaviour of not paying attention to details, exploiting it, growing people into idiots(brainscripting etc). Next comes monopolisation and overtake. Good thing is Canonical has no reason to take over say GNU, because GNU is not commercial or making own distribution. Otherwise GNU would already be taken over by Canonical.
Why would Ubuntu then prohibit using its name and logo in its forks and spinoffs? To prevent damage to its reputation. This is PURE marketing.
Originally posted by m4n1sh View Postit has completely useless, unflexible in terms of modification, package system
How? Completely useless? Inflexible? Looks like a knee jerk reaction
The only mechanism useful is pinning and careful sorting of packages.
For example I want to replace Ubuntu themes with Ocean-colored ones.
Then I have to track all and every change done to ubuntu-theming and make sure my version persists to *substitute* it correctly. I have to rebuild my version and make sure it does not break anything.
This is extreme hard work. This is pretty normal for any binary-based package manager. This works as long as amount of deviations stays within sane number and I play nice with upstream.
This is reason for extreme long path and near zero communication between developers and users. Why the hell is Ubuntu placing itself between them?!
If you have Debian, you have huge project that produces the binaries directly and has strict policies. This works.
But dont you ever try to report about an error of the modification, of the modification, of the modification. This is insane.
Because there is source. And there are recipes to build the source into specific binary form. This should be end-form.
If you want to modify the package - collaborate on source level. Together instead of standing on fathers head. But then, suddenly, Ubuntu "sales" might go down. Because people will notice which contribution and development each really do.
Originally posted by m4n1sh View Postit does not have any "linux" in its name
Ubuntu is a brand. Linux is a trademark of Linux Torvalds for the kernel. I never seen Mercedes, Wal-Mart writing what they are with their name. I never heard "Mercedes Car", "Wal-Mart superstore chain". How much difference does it make.
People who care about Ubuntu being a linux distribution already know. Those who don't care arn't going to care even if you force it down their throat
Linux is a TM, because Linus did not want someone take it over(in fact that attempt WAS made) and then start patent trolling. So it is TM for stability, not for reputation.
I have seen Mercedes Benz(unlike you) using Mercedes Benz motors and Mercedes Benz parts. Ubuntu has kernel "ubuntu" - right? Any "ubuntu" parts that are withing "ubuntu"? Ah, yes, Unity. Good point to start calling it Ubuntu, instead of Ubuntu Linux.
Wal-Mart is US-shoping chain selling chinese made stuff at american prices. It is very strong commercial marketing, repackaging and selling company. Just like Ubuntu?
"mercedes car" -> "ubuntu linux operating system", I dont think your variant is very close to my original suggestion.
Once again - "ubuntu" is targeted at those "uneducated" people. Those people DO NOT KNOW WHAT LINUX, GNU, FOSS ETC IS. The ones *forcing down the throat* are Canonical with its Ubuntu marketing. Maybe you are so used to their marketing, you stopped recognising the right and left? Maybe you are similar addict as windows user - the one searching for start button and claiming the OS should have .exe files?
Originally posted by m4n1sh View Postthe developers-users collaboration model is absent, instead users are animals to bugtrack for free. Good Lord, thanks for linux mint.
Care to elaborate? I am one who triages bugs when I get time. I do some packaging too and get them sponsored. I build packages in PPA and give it to people for testing. I am not on Canonical payroll nor even a MOTU. LOL! Linux Mint was founded using Ubuntu as the base before coming up with Debian edition. Haters gonna hate
Linux Mint was founded to make Linux user friendly. They stepped in, took Debian Unstable packages and started to get donations to make Linux useful for a noob. Programmers program, hobbists do it as hobby and other people either pay for development or use what is already made - without licenses, unneccessary payments - in FOSS form. This is called Free Libre Open Source.
Originally posted by m4n1sh View Post[it spoils the culture of foss and linux in particular with african theming
What is wrong with African theming? Can I scream RACIST?
You scream, what you are.
I don?t copy how racism and african theming belong together.
You are aware there is african racism, jewish racism, islam racism? I don?t even want to touch that pile o? sht. Or should I say variations of sht?
The point of my post is dead simple - Ubuntu, due to its excessive marketing associates FOSS and its brightest projects with one particular set of stereotypes.
When you go out and ask what is Linux, uneducated people will start sayin - its Ubuntu.
In fact nothing is wrong with African theming. Nothing is really wrong with "start button" or microsoft swastika either.
Too bad, good sane buddhists forgot to *TM* the swastika, as symbol of the Sun, the same way Linus did with Linux, so no one could steal it and associate it with something very dirty,wrong and completely opposite.
Be it your *favourite* topic or microsoft symbol.
You can scream - Gentoo Linux user.Last edited by crazycheese; 03 August 2011, 07:33 PM.
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title +1
gnome-shell ftw
i won't support the idiots they wasted money on developing unity. if they putted all the "power" into gnome-shell, everybody were satisfied.Last edited by raulromania; 03 August 2011, 07:19 PM.
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Originally posted by NomadDemon View Postcant use mandriva packages in fedora, or suse, and all this combination fails, debian and ubuntu are 99% compatible.
rpm are mess, sorry
deb also isnt perfect
btw.. iam voting for unification for packages. "alien" suck.. cant convert 80% of packages i need
so.. no rpm and no deb, just one unified.
Debian and Ubuntu are 99% compatible because Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian, Ubuntu Packages work in Ubuntu Derivatives because they are Ubuntu Derivatives, and there really aren't any other major trees in that regard.
RPMs do not have a central Distro that Everything else is derived from, Thus for obvious reasons having multiple trees means that packages from other trees may or may not work if you install them. This does not mean that RPMs are a mess it simply means that there is diversification of the distros in where they come from.
Unified Packages will not solve this "problem", the only way your dream would work in terms of packages is if you scrapped everything and made Linux like *BSD, where there is 1 Distro to rule them all 1 distro to find them, 1 distro to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. This would of course suck for all of us because that means that instead of a diversified ecosystem with every possible governance model and otherwise that you can choose from, stuck into a cookie cutter. Please take time to really think about what you're suggesting before you suggest it.
That said there are universal installers (note installers, not packages) that typically end in .run .bin .sh, etc, and of course compiling from source is universal, The difference of course between an installer or compiling from source and a package is that a package is precompiled against certain libraries and locations, you change it stuff starts to break, an installer on the other hand typically configures your system for it's libraries, and of course compiling from source makes a system specific build.
Edit: of course you do have stuff like flash that installs in a generic way but that's special because you know that things are going to look is /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins or /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins as the case may be and flash is of course it's own standalone plugin, it doesn't depend on anythingLast edited by Luke_Wolf; 03 August 2011, 06:24 PM.
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