Originally posted by mugginz
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GIMP 2.7.2 Arrives, But Still Far From Belated GIMP 2.8
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Originally posted by schmidtbagbtw, gimp isn't used for educational purposes because its constantly under development, its missing features, it lacks dedication, theres no reliable support (a HUGE downside to most community based applications), and its not considered a professional tool. in the professional world, you don't use incomplete, unstable, hobbyist software - you pay for the good stuff.Originally posted by yotambienI don't see what would be wrong with using Gimp at schools.Originally posted by mugginzI'm not sure what the social climates like where you are but here in Australia that splash screen alone would render it inappropriate for use in the school system here.
I'm not sure why the splash screen is seen as offensive. To me it is stupid because it bears no relation whatsoever with the product, but offensive? Offensive to whom? To people who don't like to be reminded of the existence of BDSM? I'm not saying it can't possibly be offensive, I'm asking genuinely.
As for the name, I remember one supervisor of mine making a funny face the first time I mentioned the program. Later on he used it and talked about it normally. I can't really say, I'm not a native english speaker. But I just can't believe Gimp isn't more widely used because of its name. Take Photoshop piracy out of the equation and we can start talking about this sort of minutiae.
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Originally posted by yotambien View PostThe context of my reply was that set by schmidtbag, i.e., the technical merits or faults of Gimp. In that context, I think this software is good for educational or personal use (despite its interface).
Originally posted by yotambien View PostI'm not sure why the splash screen is seen as offensive. To me it is stupid because it bears no relation whatsoever with the product, but offensive? Offensive to whom? To people who don't like to be reminded of the existence of BDSM? I'm not saying it can't possibly be offensive, I'm asking genuinely.
Originally posted by yotambien View PostAs for the name, I remember one supervisor of mine making a funny face the first time I mentioned the program. Later on he used it and talked about it normally. I can't really say, I'm not a native english speaker. But I just can't believe Gimp isn't more widely used because of its name. Take Photoshop piracy out of the equation and we can start talking about this sort of minutiae.
From what uses I see people put paint programs to, most of the time I'd say even The Gimp would be more than they need yet they still call for Photoshop.
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Originally posted by yotambien View PostPlease, explain.
LOLWHAT
I don't see what would be wrong with using Gimp at schools.
i worded that first sentence poorly. what i meant to say is it is very human and normal to feel pain, sadness, or any kind of hurt feelings when someone is killed for a "reason" that doesn't reflect the entirety of that person, such as race or ethnicity. people would be far less offended if someone were killed because of a terrible crime he/she committed.
if you don't live in these countries and if you're a hardcore liberal you probably have no clue what is going on. but our rights are being taken away one by one, the middle and upper-middle class are being heavily taxed, the poor are given whatever they desire, and the rich are generally unaffected. also, jobs are turning into "lets make this the most diverse friendly environment possible" instead of the original "lets make this the most efficient and reliable environment possible". every time i go to work i turn on the news on the radio and hear some new law prohibiting something, or someone being arrested because of who they are. the cause is people who just don't learn to accept anything slightly offensive to their culture.
in a highschool or middle school, sure gimp is fine. i'd recommend it for that. but if you're at a college majoring in art, you don't want to learn stuff that could be obsolete next year. you don't want to learn on non-professional tools if you are looking to become a professional artist. i like gimp, but its not worthy of a professional replacement. openoffice is the same way, although that is inching very close toward being adequate.
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Originally posted by schmidtbag View Postif you don't live in these countries and if you're a hardcore liberal you probably have no clue what is going on. but our rights are being taken away one by one, the middle and upper-middle class are being heavily taxed, the poor are given whatever they desire, and the rich are generally unaffected. also, jobs are turning into "lets make this the most diverse friendly environment possible" instead of the original "lets make this the most efficient and reliable environment possible". every time i go to work i turn on the news on the radio and hear some new law prohibiting something, or someone being arrested because of who they are. the cause is people who just don't learn to accept anything slightly offensive to their culture.
I admit that the only times I've hear the term "gimp" in a sexual context have been Pulp Fiction references, but the fact that the Gimp developers make blatant references to it (this splash screen, use of "bring out the Gimp" in official documents) means they deserve no sympathy when people don't take their software seriously.
I do, however, hear "gimp" used on a fairly regular basis to refer to something crippled. There's nothing wrong with a program's name having another meaning, but this is a particularly unfortunate one. Who would want to use a crippled computer program?
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Originally posted by mugginz View PostFrom what uses I see people put paint programs to, most of the time I'd say even The Gimp would be more than they need yet they still call for Photoshop.
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Comments are all over the map - and that's the point.
- I pointed out the splash screen to refute the silly idea that the developers of gimp were unaware of the foolish connotation the name presents
- many people will not be offended by a juvenile or suggestive name/word - many will
- there's little risk of bringing about "socialism" by choosing not to engage in offensive or hurtful language
- there's some risk in losing community support, losing user base, and generally not being taken seriously - when one chooses a juvenile, stupid, or offensive name for one's project
- many people will chose not to participate in, or use something that is offensive, or that they feel makes them look or sound stupid
The above seem to be pretty self-evident points. (That said, I'm sure some will disagree.) It's hard to imagine users being offended by a project NOT having an offensive name. If your goal is to produce a product that will be embraced professionally or by the widest audience possible, you'll want to avoid being offensive, juvenile, puerile or just stupid sounding. This is why, when Apple became involved, gimp-print was immediately renamed to "gutenprint." Apple a for-profit company, saw the same problem I and many other grown-ups do; gimp is a stupid and potentially offensive name.
I teach at a school for kids with disabilities. There's no way I can use the gimp in our setting - simply because of the juvenile, offensive name (and also because of splash screens that display inappropriate images, including prior screens that displayed drug references). Yes, I know, some of you who don't work, or don't have kids, or don't care, will point out how overly sensitive the kids, parents, teachers, therapists, administrators, and other stakeholders are. Some will scoff at how "lame" professional graphics studios would be, by choosing not to use gimp, simply because they may offend clients.
Great, fine; we're all overly sensitive puritans. We're also potential users, advocates, supporters and developers. Why be pig-headed and without reason alienate us? I dare someone to try to make this a free speech issue. No one's saying the developer's cant keep the offensive name - we're just saying it's stupid to do so.
As an advocate of Open Source software, I would LOVE to see a great graphics program take hold and challenge established commercial applications. It's just really disappointing to know that this will never happen in the case of gimp. I'm glad this discussion happened, and thanks for everyone who participated. Those who review the conversation will be able to route out the intelligent parts, and hopefully will be encouraged to engage in the debate more broadly. If enough sensible people make their feelings known, maybe, not likely, but maybe there could be a change in the name of the software - or more possibly a well-funded fork.
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Originally posted by ryanpg View Post- I pointed out the splash screen to refute the silly idea that the developers of gimp were unaware of the foolish connotation the name presents
- many people will not be offended by a juvenile or suggestive name/word - many will
- there's little risk of bringing about "socialism" by choosing not to engage in offensive or hurtful language
- there's some risk in losing community support, losing user base, and generally not being taken seriously - when one chooses a juvenile, stupid, or offensive name for one's project
- many people will chose not to participate in, or use something that is offensive, or that they feel makes them look or sound stupid
The above seem to be pretty self-evident points. (That said, I'm sure some will disagree.) It's hard to imagine users being offended by a project NOT having an offensive name. If your goal is to produce a product that will be embraced professionally or by the widest audience possible, you'll want to avoid being offensive, juvenile, puerile or just stupid sounding. This is why, when Apple became involved, gimp-print was immediately renamed to "gutenprint." Apple a for-profit company, saw the same problem I and many other grown-ups do; gimp is a stupid and potentially offensive name.
you are obligated to your own opinion; you have a right to it and a right to defend it. you can choose not to use gimp, which you made apparent that you don't. but, its not right to request a change in something that is opinionated and not controversial. the definition of gimp you are referring to is simply a description of a vocation/occupation. its just simply a bad/negative word. kind of like "kill". kill is a bad and negative word but its not necessary offensive. if gimp were named something with a notoriously insulting word such as "whore" or "spic" then those developers need to do more than just change the name. but i have never heard the word "gimp" used in a negative manner. i've heard it be used for the "offensive" terminology, but not as an insult.
however, i would definitely have to agree that if gimp is to become a professional program and one to be taken seriously, then the name does need change. it's not because the name potentially offensive, but because the derogatory definition of gimp is extremely unprofessional in general.
I teach at a school for kids with disabilities. There's no way I can use the gimp in our setting - simply because of the juvenile, offensive name (and also because of splash screens that display inappropriate images, including prior screens that displayed drug references). Yes, I know, some of you who don't work, or don't have kids, or don't care, will point out how overly sensitive the kids, parents, teachers, therapists, administrators, and other stakeholders are. Some will scoff at how "lame" professional graphics studios would be, by choosing not to use gimp, simply because they may offend clients.
Great, fine; we're all overly sensitive puritans. We're also potential users, advocates, supporters and developers. Why be pig-headed and without reason alienate us? I dare someone to try to make this a free speech issue. No one's saying the developer's cant keep the offensive name - we're just saying it's stupid to do so.
As an advocate of Open Source software, I would LOVE to see a great graphics program take hold and challenge established commercial applications. It's just really disappointing to know that this will never happen in the case of gimp. I'm glad this discussion happened, and thanks for everyone who participated. Those who review the conversation will be able to route out the intelligent parts, and hopefully will be encouraged to engage in the debate more broadly. If enough sensible people make their feelings known, maybe, not likely, but maybe there could be a change in the name of the software - or more possibly a well-funded fork.
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Originally posted by schmidtbag View Postif you don't live in these countries and if you're a hardcore liberal you probably have no clue what is going on. but our rights are being taken away one by one, the middle and upper-middle class are being heavily taxed, the poor are given whatever they desire, and the rich are generally unaffected. also, jobs are turning into "lets make this the most diverse friendly environment possible" instead of the original "lets make this the most efficient and reliable environment possible". every time i go to work i turn on the news on the radio and hear some new law prohibiting something, or someone being arrested because of who they are. the cause is people who just don't learn to accept anything slightly offensive to their culture.
in a highschool or middle school, sure gimp is fine. i'd recommend it for that. but if you're at a college majoring in art, you don't want to learn stuff that could be obsolete next year. you don't want to learn on non-professional tools if you are looking to become a professional artist. i like gimp, but its not worthy of a professional replacement. openoffice is the same way, although that is inching very close toward being adequate.
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