Linux is not ready for Steam

[kaczu]

I have never been required to edit .asoundrc files. Perhaps you need a better mixer. I recommend the Xfce Mixer.

Um, don't give me that. You provided a patch file at the beginning of this thread for OSS or did you forget and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If something is ready then it is. Not oh it's ready if you compile this, add this, then stick your front leg in and move it all around.

[kaczu]

Um, don't give me that. You provided a patch file at the beginning of this thread for OSS or did you forget and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If something is ready then it is. Not oh it's ready if you compile this, add this, then stick your front leg in and move it all around.

This because games are programmed to expect direct hardware access, which PulseAudio does not provide.

This is absolutely not correct. No game unless it's 1984 and written in DOS has direct access to hardware. All of them interface through a intermediary API. Now you can say API xyz offers more latency then it should because of it's structure, but to say that all games get direct access to hardware just isn't correct in a lot of cases.

[kaczu]

No, we don't.

In fact, I didn't even know what PA was until about 6 months ago.

Despite that you think I'm just talking about Ubuntu, Fedora also uses PA and for a lot longer than just 6 months ago.

Mixing works fine here, and Adobe volume does not impact anything else on my system.

The last time I tried it in OpenSuse 11.1 or 2 I think this was still a problem. Also have you made any edits whatsoever to the sound system to resolve any issues?

If per-app volume control is the ONLY thing that ALSA is missing, then we should add that to ALSA in a transparent way and be done with it.

Why add it to ALSA if PA already provides it?

It's sickening to see people calling for rewriting all Linux software to work with PA and PA only. Some of us don't run Ubuntu, OK?

This has absolutely nothing to do with Ubuntu. However, how about we'll have every developer write their own stack to every single whim for every single linux user who doesn't like ALSA, but likes OSS, maybe another set of instructions for those who like ALSA, maybe another set for those who like PA. Yeah that will make us receive tons of developer support.........except that doesn't work which is the issue I'm getting at.

If you want to run it, please do, but don't force everyone to run a huge complex sound server just because some ALSA drivers have buggy mixing.

Except that you're proposing that we shouldn't move forward unless it's done your way, which won't work either considering this requires give and take and sound judgement throughout the entire process.

[bwat47]

Cant say I've had any issues with pulseaudio myseld...

[darkphoenix22]

Um, don't give me that. You provided a patch file at the beginning of this thread for OSS or did you forget and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If something is ready then it is. Not oh it's ready if you compile this, add this, then stick your front leg in and move it all around.

Where did I post a patch of OSSv4?

Anyways, as it seems like the community doesn't want to switch back to OSS, I'm in favour of extending ALSA to supercede PulseAudio.

PulseAudio is available in my repo, but I am NEVER including it by default, as it breaks games and other programs due to not completely wrapping the entire ALSA API.

[darkphoenix22]

This includes programs included out of the box with my distribution.

[Svartalf]

Games use RTC or internal timer for sync (sometimes vsync on specialized hardware) and I repeat : FMod and OpenAL are de-facto standarts, other engines do software mixing internally. This trend is linked to the fact that Microsoft removed 3D sound support in DX10.

To support steam or other games, all is needed is a good API for OpenAL/FMod software mixer, with minimum latency and jitter, minimum CPU usage and recording facility (for voice support). ALSA fits the description perfectly and OSS can do this, but I think PA has too high CPU usage for this task in low-latency configuration (maybe this will improve with time). A way to sync audio buffers to vsync would be definitely a plus (as this was the case in pre-Dreamcast hardware).

Heh... This I can concur with. This has been my experience with PA- though I've tapdanced around it with the games I've ported over. PA's got "okay" latencies- but unless it's got lower ones going through it's direct API, it's not quite there for use in the context of titles. It causes all sorts of odd issues. No. many of the titles don't use the sound playback as a main timing loop- but the sounds are typically coded such that they're in lock-step with the typically 50-100msec timing atom that is present in many titles. The other game effects are timed against the sound playback to increase immersion (it does no good to pull the trigger on a gun, only to hear the gunshot sound start 110msec after you did it, as it'll start feeling like a bad Kung Fu movie dub over.

[Kano]

Just use Kanotix to play - latest versions here (2.6.34 optionally installable on hd install).

http://kanotix.com/Article243.html

ck patched kernel, bfs powered, 1000 hz - optimal for games.

[deanjo]

The last time I tried it in OpenSuse 11.1 or 2 I think this was still a problem. Also have you made any edits whatsoever to the sound system to resolve any issues?

Well I've got tonnes of openSUSE systems 11.1 and 11.2 utilizing various sound cards ranging from x-fi's, Cmedia 8788 based cards, and just plain on board systems. Like pingufunkybeat says no issue with mixing. In 11.1 the biggest issue was continuing to install pulse by default. The fix was to remove pulse and life was good again. In 11.2 it is only installed by default on Gnome systems. Sound issues dropped so drastically in 11.2 (at least in KDE land) that the old resident sound guru over at suse forums (oldcpu) had to look at a new subject to aid in troubleshooting in as he felt unneeded anymore. All that without an .asoundrc residing in the users home directly. If you had issues it was more then likely with 11.1 or 11.0 with pulse enabled.

[Mo6eB]

Not to mention that some of the Ubuntu variants (Kubuntu) don't install it by default.

Not true as of 10.04. When I updated from 9.10 (no PA) to 10.04, there was no way to prevent PA from being installed.

kmix, mpd, mplayer, xine, openjdk, dragonplayer and more all depend on pulseaudio.