Ubuntu Working Towards A Rootless X Server

[deanjo]

Okay so question then:
If nvidia and ATI provide support for KVM does that technically mean that these binary blobs wount need to run as root also?

AFIK the nvidia blobs don't run as root already.

[Caveira]

Let me see if I get this right: by running as a normal user (non-root) can I believe that suspend/resume issues are comming to an end?

[LightBit]

Finally something good from Ubuntu.

[Caveira]

Let me see if I get this right: by running as a normal user (non-root) can I believe that suspend/resume issues are comming to an end?

"coming"

I hate typos....

[RealNC]

@netsurf: even so, they would still have the binary blob in the kernel, running at above-root privileges.

Yeah, drivers tend to do that, lol :P

[jakubo]

maybe someone else recalls...
i think that someone said that it it would be easy to make a rootless X patch - like 2 weeks. and initial work has been done about half a year ago if i remember well...

[whizse]

Yeah, as mentioned earlier, Intel and Red Hat have had this working for some time. The biggest problem was snooping on input in a multi-user environment, IIRC.

[FunkyRider]

Okay so question then:
If nvidia and ATI provide support for KVM does that technically mean that these binary blobs wount need to run as root also?

The potential benfits of this would be huge!
Just think since it isnt running as root there would me more umph root is able to give if X were to crash and eat all the ram

I don't think it would be feasible. KMS is integrated right into the kernel, ATI/NV's binary blobs, OTOH, try as hard to decouple from the OS because they came from Windows Drivers, that's why it would be unfeasible for them to provide KMS binary drivers: too much of work. Also, KMS drivers are maintained by kernel devs, unless NV/ATI devote their devs to work in sync with Linux kernel devs, there is no way it would be released on time, so expect it to break a lot more often than it already is now. Third, even if they come up with some plan to seed Linux kernel with a KMS interface that would work with either binary blobs, do you think Linus the ego man will accept it into the kernel? No, over his dead corpse! So No, no and no.

[thefirstm]

I don't know about ATI, but I do know that Nvidia's blob doesn't require the X server to run as root.

[unix_epoch]

FYI: "rootless" has a special meaning when talking about things related to X. To convey the meaning intended, "non-root" should be used. Ideally, you should say "not running as root", but I realize that can be a bit long for a headline.

"Unprivileged" should work just fine. I keep envisioning an X desktop running on top of a standard Linux console with no root window every time I see the word "rootless" in this context. If that becomes the modern accepted usage, so be it, but long before KMS was a dream in a developer's mind, "rootless" X servers were X servers that did not have a root window, and if "rootless" is commandeered to mean "not running as root," then we'll need a new word to describe X servers without a root window.

In case anyone is unfamiliar, the root window is the desktop background. A rootless X server incorporates X11 windows on some other desktop.