Having alternatives is simply good, that's why it happened and continues to happen. KDE and Gnome will never unify, or if they will, someone will fork both, and then there will be three major DEs :P
And on the flaming topic, KDE and Gnome both suck. Heavy bloated crap. I'll have my sound without pulsing, my settings without gconf *cough registry cough*, and my WM without hundreds-of-megs ram use.
Then on the bottom end, Qt and Gtk+ are both good. They are different, but they both work. Apps are free to be UI-agnostic, for example Pidgin is libpurple and an UI can be created with any toolkit. Then it's only up to interested people to have an IM app in Fox.
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Originally posted by sabriah View Post
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Originally posted by drag View Posthate Windows because it is exceptionally unpleasant OS to use.
Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4? In this video, we take to Sydney's streets to find out what people think of what they think is a Windows 7 demonstration.from ZDNET...
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Originally posted by drag View PostNo KDE is not better for normal desktop use. Not even remotely. It may be better for what _you_ use, but that does not translate to 'generally'.
2) KDE is more like windows gui. The most obvious one panel at the down screen vs two panels in Gnome is a big point here. That really seems to be a heck of a problem for people, believe me.
3) KDE technology focuses on desktop use while Gnome on more corporate and server use. For example Kde has compositing and plasmoid by default to get those in Gnome you have to use third party apps.
Gnome is not Windows and KDE is not Linux. Your comparing apples to oranges and it really has no correlation at all.
KDE and Gnome are not mutually exclusive items. When I started using Linux there was enough differences that you had problems actually running KDE applications next to Gnome. There were incompatibilities with all sorts of things.
Though really it's quite madness IMHO, the current situation is better, but if this was Apple or Ms I believe they would try to fix the gtk+ qt inconsistency mess ... I do hope community will do the same, though I hope so for like 5 or 6 years already ...Last edited by val-gaav; 05 November 2009, 07:43 PM.
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Originally posted by val-gaav View Post... because gnome is better then kde for comercial interests. Redhat, SLED, well all the major comercial distros use gnome ... That on the other hand pays up with tools and other stuff from those companies that work yes in gtk+/gnome.
That being said KDE is better for normal desktop use, which is not in the greatest interest of players right now aside from short netbook boom, which now ended with XP installed on almost all of those small things.
Dunno why I got quoted on this.. I stated it's not gnome fault. But ubuntu is a gnome centric distro so by nature things like that fuel some hate.
Oh and FF on linux requires gtk+ and follows gnome HIG ... For me it is an app close to gnome, even if it's XUL deep under the hood. Openoffice has integration packages for both gtk+ and Qt4 so it's a bit different here, or rather it's just as you say in this case
Distros use those packages because they are useful and they try to integrate those into their desktops in best way possible; which is generally gnome.
The reason I quote them is because people think that because that Firefox or OO.org don't have the standard placement for menu items and other things that 'each application has a different dialog' and such things. It's just nice to point out things so that people don't get confused.
Oh, and Firefox is not 'deep down XUL'. It is entirely XUL and everything from the URL bar to the menu items to the main browser window is rendered with the same HTML engine. It's actually quite cool and you can run similar applications that are completely web-based..
Sure and Widnows being popular does not dimnish Linux at all
Gnome is not Windows and KDE is not Linux. Your comparing apples to oranges and it really has no correlation at all.
KDE and Gnome are not mutually exclusive items. When I started using Linux there was enough differences that you had problems actually running KDE applications next to Gnome. There were incompatibilities with all sorts of things.
Nowadays there are still look-n-feel conflicts, but it hardly stops people from choosing one or another or both.Last edited by drag; 05 November 2009, 06:13 PM.
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Ah, nice thread. I love "KDE sucks", "no Gnome sucks", "no you" threads
So I'll jump right in. As a KDE fanboy, I think Gnome sucks. First, I don't like its API (Gtk.) Second, I don't like the reason Gnome came into existence in the first place ("free" alternative to "non-free" KDE). Third, I don't like the recent "WOW! Mono/.NET is awesome lets use it" mentality of the Gnome devs. Fourth, I don't like that Gtk doesn't integrate at all with Qt (while Qt does integrate with Gtk). Fifth, I don't like Gnome's configuration/tweaking options. Sixth, Gtk performance sucks compared to Qt. Seventh, Kwin4 stomps on Metacity. Seventh and a half, Kwin also stomps on the bloated overkill called Compiz.
Oh man, I could go on all day longLast edited by RealNC; 05 November 2009, 04:45 PM.
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Originally posted by Jimmy View PostIt would be nice if KDE applications could use the GTK file selector and vice versa according to the user's preference. I doubt that will ever be much more than an idle daydream.
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Originally posted by drag View PostPretty much everybody that any sort of commercial interest or focuses on making Linux more acceptable to average person uses Gnome by default.
That being said KDE is better for normal desktop use, which is not in the greatest interest of players right now aside from short netbook boom, which now ended with XP installed on almost all of those small things.
Well especially that Firefox is not a Gnome application and has never had anything to do with Gnome. It's a Mozilla XUL application, which is entirely different from GTK or Gnome or anything else related to Gnome. Same thing with OpenOffice.org, which is not and has never been a GTK or Gnome application.
Oh and FF on linux requires gtk+ and follows gnome HIG ... For me it is an app close to gnome, even if it's XUL deep under the hood. Openoffice has integration packages for both gtk+ and Qt4 so it's a bit different here, or rather it's just as you say in this case
The flaming is because they think that Gnome being popular diminishes KDE. Which is just retarded and is not how the world works. It is not a zero sum game.Last edited by val-gaav; 05 November 2009, 05:04 PM.
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Originally posted by val-gaav View PostFor example kde users may start hating gnome when installing firefox in kubuntu tries to download and install half of gnome.
Updates may take a bit longer, but not so much that users do much different than what they do now: quickly glance at the updates, start the process, and ignore it until it's done.
The places it might be more significant would be in the design and implementation of embedded systems where resources are thin. For the average desktop user, not so much.
I think the biggest stumbling block for users is how every other application uses a different file selector. How common features find themselves being hidden in different sub menus (file->settings, edit->settings, settings->options, tools->settings) from app to app. Heck there are things that even applications built with the same toolkit can't seem to agree on like whether each tab should have a close button or not (Konsole vs Konqueror vs Konversation vs Dolphin).
It would be nice if KDE applications could use the GTK file selector and vice versa according to the user's preference. I doubt that will ever be much more than an idle daydream.
Meh... they'll have to work much harder than they supposedly are to keep me from using both application flavors.
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Originally posted by val-gaav View PostOne main linux distro is already happening (ubuntu). In a few years it will most likely continue to gain users.
Pretty much everybody that any sort of commercial interest or focuses on making Linux more acceptable to average person uses Gnome by default.
With that in mind flaming is a thing that comes up from bad experiences with environment. For example kde users may start hating gnome when installing firefox in kubuntu tries to download and install half of gnome.
Well especially that Firefox is not a Gnome application and has never had anything to do with Gnome. It's a Mozilla XUL application, which is entirely different from GTK or Gnome or anything else related to Gnome. Same thing with OpenOffice.org, which is not and has never been a GTK or Gnome application.
Distros include those by default since they are useful applications, but they use their own toolkits and whatnot.
That example is not really strictly gnome fault though ... Same goes with windows it's not that linux users hate it just because ... they hate because they have to use it at work, some applications from it are not ported, because MS undermines open source .. etc etc.
If gnome and kde had good cooperation and did not cause problems one to each other then for sure there would be quite less people flaming in gnome vs kde threads. Flames have always some reason in frustration in people and this frustration is hardly because of one desktop having 5% more users then the other one.
The flaming is because they think that Gnome being popular diminishes KDE. Which is just retarded and is not how the world works. It is not a zero sum game.
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