Hello, new to the forum.
Long time COMPUTERS user (spectrum, ti994/a, commodore 128, ibm pc xt, amiga, etc, etc), and long time OSES user (DOS, CPM, DR.DOS, Windows, OS/2, BeOS, linux, OSX, etc).
As some have already say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, in general, y don't understand what is the obsession of some to "dark" themes.
If you ask me, i rather have the Windows 2000 look than the 7 look.
But then again, i like OSX look better.
I'm really not a heavy Linux user, but i use it from time to time.
I'n fact, i'm going to replace Windows7 with Ubuntu/SUSE/Fedora/other soon.
When i started, i tested both Gnome and KDE, and what i remember is seein KDE and think "ugh, 1000 options to do the same thing", and that it looked too much like windows. This was with kde3.
Since then, i've been using Gnome when i do use linux.
I would be checking kde4, but the point is i rather have simplicity and elegance oveer flashiness any day.
I prefer ThinkPads look over Alienware's or HPs ones: minimalism rules.
My 2cents.
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostDon't take my comment out of context. I replied to a very specific comment, which roughly said that (a) a specific example of inconsistency is fine (posted in the blog I linked) and (b) any user who is thrown off by this inconsistency is an idiot.
I don't believe that KDE developers are happy with such inconsistencies either, nor do I believe they are the result of stubborness. In all likelihood, they will be fixed sooner rather than later.
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostAn OpenGL dependency is not bad now that most (relevant) open source drivers have reached ~1.5 level. Given current trends, I'd expect more and more applications to use hardware acceleration as time passes (Qt included).
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostIf you are willing to look out of the box, there's a lot of innovation going on on the Gnome side, too: Moonlight on the desktop is simply awesome - and it doesn't require OpenGL either. (I expect a Clutter-based renderer will be implemented in the future, right now there's a Cairo and a OpenVG(!) based renderer.)
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It would be nice if GNOME 2.30 would have the option to login in to GNOME 3.0 (alfa/beta/...)
So users will have the option to switch whenever they want from 2.30 to 3.0 and back. More people will test and give their opinion and comments on the upcoming 3.0 release..
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Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View PostI'm really not trying to argue with you, but that comment is completely insane and so is the reasoning behind it.
If you remove libjpeg or libxcb half of Gnome would break. The same for glibc. None of the aforementioned packages are part of Gnome or KDE. Let's not take it back to 2003 when every package written in Gtk+ or began with the letter "g" was called a Gnome app. The "g" stands for GNU - not Gnome.
Gstreamer is obviously not part of Gnome in the sense that it relies on Gnome libraries or infrastructure - it is a depenency and a significant one at that.
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostNever said otherwise. It's intricately tied in the sense that if you take it out, half of Gnome will break.
If you remove libjpeg or libxcb half of Gnome would break. The same for glibc. None of the aforementioned packages are part of Gnome or KDE. Let's not take it back to 2003 when every package written in Gtk+ or began with the letter "g" was called a Gnome app. The "g" stands for GNU - not Gnome.
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Originally posted by mat69 View PostWell tbh Nautilus having tabs is not a groundbreaking feature -- rather a sign for the stubborness of the devs as that was a real old feature-request -- neither is fast user switching or Tomboy or Evolution (what groundbreaking changes were there, IMAP?).
Tabbed Nautilus is an evolutionary feature in itself, but it has actually revolutionalized how I use my computer (actually, this was the single KDE 3.x/4.x that I missed in Gnome).
Evolution: several features have been introduced over the years. For me, the biggest is exchange support (I haven't been able to get this to work on any other open source mail client). Laugh all you want, but this is the feature that allowed me to stay with Gnome/Linux while working for a Windows shop.
Tomboy: this is an innovative little application that packs a punch. It just keeps getting better with every version, with remote sync being the killer feature. Dammit, I used to enter my notes into version control just to be able to sync them between my workstations!
Imo there are other, better examples that happened in the Gnome ecosystem, like PackageKit, ConsoleKit and DeviceKit.
Consistency, man, the point is consistency. If I hover on a button, I expect it to shine. I expect a tooltip to unfold and explain its function. If neither happens, it's broken and should be fixed (at least in the Gnome world, but I doubt KDE views this differently).
I don't believe that KDE developers are happy with such inconsistencies either, nor do I believe they are the result of stubborness. In all likelihood, they will be fixed sooner rather than later.
I do believe, however, that Gnome developers take a more proactive approach to such issues - which is also why they are delaying Gnome 3.0. It's simply a different approach to development - release earlier with some issues (KDE 4.0) or hold back and polish (Gnome 3.0). (Note: both approaches have their merits, I'm not advocating one over the other).
On Gnome 3 what I'm missing is Gtk 3, there is nothing groundbreaking for Gtk 3 really, look at the changes of Qt, look at what we will have with Qt 4.6 in a few weeks --> animating has become so easy, I know there is Clutter, but clutter needs OpenGL Qt does not. On the Qt board there happened so much and in the following months there will happen even more (QMF for one).
If you are willing to look out of the box, there's a lot of innovation going on on the Gnome side, too: Moonlight on the desktop is simply awesome - and it doesn't require OpenGL either. (I expect a Clutter-based renderer will be implemented in the future, right now there's a Cairo and a OpenVG(!) based renderer.)
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Please don't generalize, there is no such thing as the typical KDE or Gnome user.
Use what you want to use and be happy with that.
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostEvolution, Accessibility, GStreamer (with automatic codec installer), Seahorse, Orca, Tomboy, Cheese, GVFS, Brasero, fast user switching, tabbed Nautilus.
Imo there are other, better examples that happened in the Gnome ecosystem, like PackageKit, ConsoleKit and DeviceKit. Great basis for future developement and used by other DEs as well. E.g. look at that new tool to manage your drives that uses DeviceKit, really nice that you can look at the S.M.A.R.T figures and make a test etc. from a nice gui. There happened a lot though imo Gnome devs -- or the ones deciding what comes in -- often are too conservative and don't use the potential Gnome could have --> options are not bad neither are they evil! Still their conservatism is also one of Gnome's strengths, its like Ying and Yang finding a balance and that is pretty hard.
On the window decoration part, nearly everything is possible with the changes Marco Martin (IIRC!) did, you could make the windows look like the plasma widgets etc. there just needs to be someone writing a theme for it. I have forgotten the name though.
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostConsistency, man, the point is consistency. If I hover on a button, I expect it to shine. I expect a tooltip to unfold and explain its function. If neither happens, it's broken and should be fixed (at least in the Gnome world, but I doubt KDE views this differently).
On Gnome 3 what I'm missing is Gtk 3, there is nothing groundbreaking for Gtk 3 really, look at the changes of Qt, look at what we will have with Qt 4.6 in a few weeks --> animating has become so easy, I know there is Clutter, but clutter needs OpenGL Qt does not. On the Qt board there happened so much and in the following months there will happen even more (QMF for one).
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evolution of GUIs
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostSince Mac OS X (first) and Vista (second). Apple and Microsoft have spent many millions of dollars designing and testing these interfaces - yes, some people prefer the looks of Win98, but the vast majority of users appreciate elegance and - why not? - beauty.
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostJust look at the new Ubuntu icon theme (Humanity, I think?) or the "New Wave" theme: these are works of art! Simple, elegant and beatiful, with curves and chrome that actually improves usability (e.g. strong button highlights, differentiating colors) and the right balance of "glossiness".
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostOf course, amateur designers will produce amateur crap 9 times out of 10, but design skills seem to be going up on average now that the initial "yay Compiz!" effect has worn off.Last edited by ioannis; 05 November 2009, 08:33 AM.
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Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View PostAs far as I can tell, it's no more "intricately tied with Gnome" than GTK+ is. That is, GNOME does use it as a component, but it doesn't depend on GNOME.
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostSo while it's not a Gnome app per se (it's not hosted on gnome.org), it's pretty intricately tied with Gnome.
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