GNOME 3.0 May Not Come Until September 2010

[val-gaav]

May you give 3 usability issues you had? Excluding the "ugly look" or other biased arguments? By issues I will wanna hear: I cannot see preview of what I select, or I'm not able to pick a file in this case, or I cannot type directly to get a file I know, etc.

You named it yourself

1) Up to this day uplaoding pictures with firefox or adding pictures to mail is impossible without knowing the files. GTK+ file picker uses list with one size and it's way too small for the previews to be useful ... Thus I have to use dolphin go to my pic folder and remember that photo0028 is the one I want, then go to back to FF/TB and attach it with the filepicker.
For me that is a major usability problem

2) Sorting the list is quite limited for example I cannot sort the list of files by file type ... Only size date modified and name are present oh and BTW I know size was not present in the past at all

3) I find having only one view mode quite limiting because for example browsing a folder with pics would be possible if you could view them as normal sized icons. Oh and I know people who hate datailed list view, and prefer normal icons view.

Dare to be different and minimalist is not "usability joke" as long you not come to Gnome team and show a better concept.

The last gnome epic fail with removing icons in menu and buttons to make the buttons smaller is also a minimalist way ... lol the fact is they were just unable to make the buttons smaller with icons so they decided to switch them off by default... Now great way to solve issues : something doesn't work just turn it off instead coding a proper solution

Gnome devs often take that minimalist way so far that applications become simply useless to people that want to have a job done with them . One of a such examples I last tried is OGGConverter... The app to re-encode files into OGG Vorbis/Theora. I'm sorry but having just a quality slider file picker and a encode button simply doesn't cut it. To do as simple thing as changing the resolution of encoded video I had to go back to CLI ffmpeg2theora.

[ciplogic]

Open/save file dialogs in gtk+ were always one big horrible joke on usability, features or whatever you want to name it.

Saying that those are much better now is just as saying that "hell has frozen".... and it's also untrue, because I'm watching this dialog right now on my PC and it still makes me want to delete every application that uses it.

As for other things I think we are living in 21 centry right now so putting drag and drop into major improvements is silly. It's not an major improvement it's a basic function that every DE should have and if it doesn't have it the devs should be just ashamed.

Here I think you are somehow trolling as you said phrases biased probably on your experience and you said NONE of it's issues. I can state in reverse: "KDE is just an usability joke as you cannot copy your plasmioids in OpenOffice and the KDE4 is simply too confusing, mostly when you open Dolphin and the Desktop folder plasmiod. What's is the point to have three file-manager applications (plasmiod, konquerror and Dolphin)" (end trolling)

Ok, try to do a simple save/open dialog as yourself and you will see that "coverflow" or "column view" may not be as good as stated, and Windows 95-like ones have only one quality, shell integration. In rest, I am really pleased on this dialog. I cannot state the same on Open Font dialog. Dare to be different and minimalist is not "usability joke" as long you not come to Gnome team and show a better concept. May you give 3 usability issues you had? Excluding the "ugly look" or other biased arguments? By issues I will wanna hear: I cannot see preview of what I select, or I'm not able to pick a file in this case, or I cannot type directly to get a file I know, etc.

So my point is: can you get it better than just whine? Can you add functionality to it that you think that is a MUST HAVE, and without making this interface too intrusive and confusing?

I can say "success story" with my aunt, which is office user person, 55 years old and she could use Gnome really smooth. Dare to not be Windows doesn't mean that is a usability joke. The single feature I know I can do in Windows shell (but I cannot do it with OS X for example), is that I can filter (like: *.jpg) before I pick a file.

Did you used old GNOME 2.0 dialogs, to just see that the save/open dialogs are more usable?

[L33F3R]

looks like i stirred up the hive. Good

Ill just throw these in the abstract.

- default gnome is clean and simple. Nothing to be ashamed of. If you feel like defending windows 98 by all means please do. If you would like a side by side of gnome and windows 98 from the default install I would be happy to find you accurate images at your request.

-Gnome 3.0 is a marketing release. You are correct. But shell and the works are just evolutionary. which is how gnome works.

-The video towards kde vs windows is about as credible as any number of the stupid American videos you find on the internet. I argue a comparison towards win7 and KDE4, not kde posing as win7. Average people wont know the difference but perhaps a side by side comparison? find me that vid and props to you. No one here has denied that kde4 is nice on the eyes, which is basically what you prove.

-KDE4 4.1 was a piece of crap despite even being "early adopt", infact i wouldn't even consider using it on a production environment until at least 4.3. Now she runs well. Despite being "early adopt" it was a productive release, distros did pick it up. Some distros did the right thing and wait a while, Others diddnt. This doesnt mean that kde 4-4.2 diddnt suck.

@kraftman, i am a kde user
@mat69, cant help you there my man. Im not very good with page long multi quotes. not worth my time.

[mat69]

please explain how the kde fanboys can both argue that the reason we will have a gnome 3.0 is because we need to catch up with kde; and on the flipside, its not really a 3.0 release at all.

gnome 3 adds a few major things. they dont want a total overhaul like kde4, which might i remind you sucked ass for about the first year as they crunched bugs. The kde fans here are debating that gnome is both a moderate change and an overhaul (not necessarily the same people arguing both). These are the same people that say windows 7 looks "ugly" or "disgusting", when a joe on the street will tell you default kde4 looks far worse.

kde fanboys (not to be confuzzled with kde users) are to desktop environments as republicans are to American politics...

Yay for generalizing...
Go and keep your trolling to yourself or come back if you have something else to say. I'm a KDE fan and what you generalized above simply does not apply to me neither some others I know (I won't speak for the rest).

If you disagree with something people said go and quote them and respond, instead of using a straw man argument or generalizing.

PS.: I really hate it when people come with "they", there is no such thing as "they". _Every_ group of many people has different kinds of people in it.

[Zhick]

These are the same people that say windows 7 looks "ugly" or "disgusting", when a joe on the street will tell you default kde4 looks far worse.

Well, lets see what people on the street actually say: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/soft...9294810,00.htm
Look at that, they actually like KDE4 it seems. :P
Edit: Just to clarify: I'm not trying to say that Windows 7 is ugly. Haven't used it myself yet, and probably wont in the foreseeable future, but from what I've seen so far it does appear to be decent. This link just jumped to my mind when I read your post.

[val-gaav]

please explain how the kde fanboys can both argue that the reason we will have a gnome 3.0 is because we need to catch up with kde; and on the flipside, its not really a 3.0 release at all.

Gnome 3.0 is a marketing release. Just as Firefox 3.1 was renamed to 3.5 for a bigger impact the same goes with Gnome 3.0

gnome 3 adds a few major things. they dont want a total overhaul like kde4, which might i remind you sucked ass for about the first year as they crunched bugs.

First release 4.0 was market as for devs only. It's really not KDE fault that Fedora and few others decided to ship something that was intented just for Qt/KDE devs.
The second release 4.1 was marked as "early adopters" which IMHO also was a clear message to distros to not upgrade.

These are the same people that say windows 7 looks "ugly" or "disgusting", when a joe on the street will tell you default kde4 looks far worse.

... and that says a person that on the first page here posted a highly customized Gnome desktop pic instead of default upstream Gnome look and feel ... Are you really that ashamed of Gnome default look ? The fact is both Windows7 and KDE4 defaults look a LOT better then default Gnome ..

[kraftman]

please explain how the kde fanboys can both argue that the reason we will have a gnome 3.0 is because we need to catch up with kde; and on the flipside, its not really a 3.0 release at all.

Like someone mentioned it can be just for marketing needs... You can believe or not.

gnome 3 adds a few major things. they dont want a total overhaul like kde4, which might i remind you sucked ass for about the first year as they crunched bugs.

It wasn't recommended for production use, but they were so kind they let you use and test it.

The kde fans here are debating that gnome is both a moderate change and an overhaul (not necessarily the same people arguing both). These are the same people that say windows 7 looks "ugly" or "disgusting", when a joe on the street will tell you default kde4 looks far worse.

No, Joe will tell you KDE4 looks far better.

kde fanboys (not to be confuzzled with kde users) are to desktop environments as republicans are to American politics...

And you're different.

[bugmenot]

Fair enough

Only one correction: Contrary to the belief of a lot of gnome users, Gstreamer is not a gnome app. In fact, isn't Gstreamer the default backend of Phonon? (BTW, the entire Phonon approach is nothing short of freakin genius)

Except that there are two forks of phonon - the qt version and the KDE version.

Not only that, Nokia is planning to abandon it for some upcoming abstraction framework yet to be announced...

[BlackStar]

please explain how the kde fanboys can both argue that the reason we will have a gnome 3.0 is because we need to catch up with kde; and on the flipside, its not really a 3.0 release at all.

gnome 3 adds a few major things. they dont want a total overhaul like kde4, which might i remind you sucked ass for about the first year as they crunched bugs. The kde fans here are debating that gnome is both a moderate change and an overhaul (not necessarily the same people arguing both). These are the same people that say windows 7 looks "ugly" or "disgusting", when a joe on the street will tell you default kde4 looks far worse.

kde fanboys (not to be confuzzled with kde users) are to desktop environments as republicans are to American politics...

Well said!

Gnome 3.0 is not a "revolutionary" release, like KDE 4 was (with all the pain and suffering that brought). It's the culmination of years of gradual changes. It's also an effort to clean up the codebase from legacy features.

Gnome doesn't need "clean breaks" or "revolutions". This is its strength. This is why it's used almost exclusively in the professional/corporate world.

[L33F3R]

Remember gnome 3.0 would not happen without kde4. Gnomers were so set on their incremental improvements and no 3.0 as we do not believe in revolution (there was a webpage on gnome.org called threepointzero arguing how next major release will not happen and why). Only KDE impact made them go 3.0 route.

please explain how the kde fanboys can both argue that the reason we will have a gnome 3.0 is because we need to catch up with kde; and on the flipside, its not really a 3.0 release at all.

gnome 3 adds a few major things. they dont want a total overhaul like kde4, which might i remind you sucked ass for about the first year as they crunched bugs. The kde fans here are debating that gnome is both a moderate change and an overhaul (not necessarily the same people arguing both). These are the same people that say windows 7 looks "ugly" or "disgusting", when a joe on the street will tell you default kde4 looks far worse.

kde fanboys (not to be confuzzled with kde users) are to desktop environments as republicans are to American politics...