KDE Plasma 6.0.4 Ships With Dozens Of Bug Fixes

[smitty3268]

It doesn't work because, despite being told, Wayland went ahead with implicit sync.

As people on this forum are so fond of saying, Wayland is 15 years old. It didn't "go ahead with implicit sync" over people's objections. That's simply how linux worked back then, and the competition did too.

Was it slower than Microsoft or Google to move to explicit sync? Well, yes. But that's because they had so much less manpower/money, and were having enough trouble just getting wayland to run and port everything over to it. Adding another big foundational transformation like explicit sync would have just made it harder to bring up.

Was explicit sync more important, than, say, allowing to disable vsync? Or proper fractional scaling? Or drag and drop functionality? Or porting kwin and mutter? I don't think many people would agree with that.

[bug77]

As people on this forum are so fond of saying, Wayland is 15 years old. It didn't "go ahead with implicit sync" over people's objections. That's simply how linux worked back then, and the competition did too.

Was it slower than Microsoft or Google to move to explicit sync? Well, yes. But that's because they had so much less manpower/money, and were having enough trouble just getting wayland to run and port everything over to it. Adding another big foundational transformation like explicit sync would have just made it harder to bring up.

Was explicit sync more important, than, say, allowing to disable vsync? Or proper fractional scaling? Or drag and drop functionality? Or porting kwin and mutter? I don't think many people would agree with that.

Yeah, Wayland broke everything from copy/paste all the way to the architecture. But explicit sync was a bridge too far. You'll excuse me if I don't buy that.

[sophisticles]

For future reference, are you dumb or are you just playing?

Since you clearly (should by now) know that that number does not apply to Plasma alone.

You do realize that there is no such distinction from the end users point of view.


Much like if i sit you in front of a Windows system and there is a bug in DX, or .Net or file explorer or the networking stack, in the end it doesn't matter where it is, if it impacts your use of the system that is what you are going to be saying, that Windows is buggy.

When you install the complete Plasma DE, you don't care if the bug is in the compositor, the Windowing system, the file manager, theming, etc, it doesn't matter, what you know is that there are 24+ thousand open bug reports associated with the software you just installed.

People like you are part of the problem, too willing to make excuses for poor products.

[duby229]

You do realize that there is no such distinction from the end users point of view.


Much like if i sit you in front of a Windows system and there is a bug in DX, or .Net or file explorer or the networking stack, in the end it doesn't matter where it is, if it impacts your use of the system that is what you are going to be saying, that Windows is buggy.

When you install the complete Plasma DE, you don't care if the bug is in the compositor, the Windowing system, the file manager, theming, etc, it doesn't matter, what you know is that there are 24+ thousand open bug reports associated with the software you just installed.

People like you are part of the problem, too willing to make excuses for poor products.

I'd like to point out that there is a huge difference in bug reporting for Linux distro's than for Windows. Every major linux distro and open source project has its own bug reporting portal, anybody can google search and find thousands of bug reports for them. But that's not true for Windows and proprietary apps, most of them don't. But can't let the lack of bug reporting portals and the inability to find bug reports confuse you into thinking it has less bugs. Actually the dozens of bug reporting portals and the thousands of bug reports available is a good thing.

[anda_skoa]

You do realize that there is no such distinction from the end users point of view.

Of course there is.

If a bug is in an application, it is clearly the application that is not working correctly.

E.g. if there is a bug in Firefox, users will not think it is in Plasma/Gnome Shell/LXQt/etc or Linux/macOS/Windows.
If the user is not even using Firefox they won't even experience it.

That remains true if we look at an application from other vendors, including KDE

[sophisticles]

I'd like to point out that there is a huge difference in bug reporting for Linux distro's than for Windows. Every major linux distro and open source project has its own bug reporting portal, anybody can google search and find thousands of bug reports for them. But that's not true for Windows and proprietary apps, most of them don't. But can't let the lack of bug reporting portals and the inability to find bug reports confuse you into thinking it has less bugs. Actually the dozens of bug reporting portals and the thousands of bug reports available is a good thing.

I am under no illusions that other OSes do not have bugs.

The same that Gnome no longer has a bug tracker but it certainly has many bugs, the biggest being the Gnome developers themselves.

Gnome - the joke that keeps on being funny.

[sophisticles]

Of course there is.

If a bug is in an application, it is clearly the application that is not working correctly.

E.g. if there is a bug in Firefox, users will not think it is in Plasma/Gnome Shell/LXQt/etc or Linux/macOS/Windows.
If the user is not even using Firefox they won't even experience it.

That remains true if we look at an application from other vendors, including KDE

When you do a complete install of Plasma you install Kate, Dolphin, etc.

If find a show stopping bug in Dolphin, what do you say "it's not KDE's fault that Dolphin is buggy" or do you say "KDE is buggy"?

The fact that the KDE bug reports are broken down by component does not mitigate the fact that a component of KDE is buggy.

[Morty]

When you do a complete install of Plasma you install Kate, Dolphin, etc.

If find a show stopping bug in Dolphin, what do you say "it's not KDE's fault that Dolphin is buggy" or do you say "KDE is buggy"?

Like when a user use Windows and encounter a bug in Edge or Notepad, and use that as a argument as windows is buggy?
No they don't, they obviously blame the application for being buggy. By that we also know that the average user is smarter than you.
Thanks for confirming.

[anda_skoa]

When you do a complete install of Plasma you install Kate, Dolphin, etc.

This might depend on your distribution but this would be very weird package dependencies.
Even an install of KDE Neon, which installs more than just Plasma, does not have programs like Kate installed by default.

Fortunately it is rare that I have to install from scratch, essentially only when I get a new computer, but I maintain a list of extra software that I need to install afterwards.
And that list contains several KDE applications because so far they have never been installed by default.

KDE is simply a vendor with a portfolio too large to install everything by default, let alone as a dependency of the desktop product.

If find a show stopping bug in Dolphin, what do you say "it's not KDE's fault that Dolphin is buggy" or do you say "KDE is buggy"?

We were discussing the claim that people would attribute application bugs to Plasma, i.e. KDE's desktop product.

We could at a stretch consider Dolphin to be part of the desktop suite, like Explorer being considered part of Windows.
But that would still not apply to other applications, especially those that need to be installed separately.

Sure, there might be users who have difficulties understanding that a vendor can have multiple products.
I've met people who would refer to all MS Office application as "Windows". Such users might refer to all KDE programs as Plasma.

Usually this is not a very common phenomenon, least on platforms where Plasma would be the desktop.
However it sounds as if you are one of them.