Linux Mint Debian Edition 6 Released

[Flaburgan]

But I guess Linux Mint developers strive for mediocrity.

They are making choices. Apparently not the ones you would have made. Well, that's exactly the reason why we love free software, we can pick what suits us the best. That does not suit you? Use something else. No need to be insulting about the thousands of hours of work that people are giving you for free.

[Flaburgan]

Is there a reason to use LMDE instead of Debian and just install the cinnamon package?

The Linux Mint philosophy is different, it's a very polished experience, targeting people who just want things to work. That implies choices like making proprietary soft / drivers part of the default install. So, easy to use, nothing to configure, but non-free software. Your choice.

[EphemeralEft]

But these days you can achieve pretty much everything with Gnome extensions, so I'm 100% sure you can recreate the Cinnamon experience in Gnome almost completely. So that's why I think the best way forward for them is to ditch Cinnamon, instead take a certain Gnome release and just recreate the Cinnamon experience with extensions.

You mean the extensions that Gnome keeps breaking backwards compatibility with? Like they did again a month ago? It’s probably less work to fork.

[EphemeralEft]

Some will probably disagree with me, but I don't see the point of Linux Mint shipping Gnome and KDE. Since the last 10+ years, Linux Mint has been focused on providing a unique and specific traditional desktop experience, which only the 3 traditional GTK desktop environments provide (Cinnamon, MATE, and Xfce). Linux Mint's in house X apps (that also use GTK with traditional elements such as menu bars) are designed exactly for the paradigm that only these 3 desktops provide.

I do agree however that they should at least start working on Cinnamon Wayland support asap, because otherwise they would be left behind if it's too late.

The other benefit I can think of is removing most of Ubuntu’s bloat, but that’s also not a selling point for LMDE.

[user1]

You mean the extensions that Gnome keeps breaking backwards compatibility with? Like they did again a month ago? It’s probably less work to fork.

No. If they just use upstream Gnome, they don't have to do anything but simply work on their extensions. DId you read my previous paragraph? As I said, they waste an enormous amount of time working on their own Muffin (fork of Mutter) optimisations and fixes, when upstream Mutter already receives its own even better improvements and fixes. Same for the Cinnamon desktop itself. If they simply use upstream Gnome and just work on their extensions, that means they don't have to work on any of that lower level stuff, which is WAY less work. And again, they don't necessarily have to update to every major Gnome version.

[darkdragon-001]

Wondering when they ditch the Ubuntu base completely and LMDE will become default. Their philosophy continues to diverge more and more from the Ubuntu one and in turn continuously increasing the maintenance load going forward.

[billyswong]

No. If they just use upstream Gnome, they don't have to do anything but simply work on their extensions. DId you read my previous paragraph? As I said, they waste an enormous amount of time working on their own Muffin (fork of Mutter) optimisations and fixes, when upstream Mutter already receives its own even better improvements and fixes. Same for the Cinnamon desktop itself. If they simply use upstream Gnome and just work on their extensions, that means they don't have to work on any of that lower level stuff, which is WAY less work. And again, they don't necessarily have to update to every major Gnome version.

You forgot the risk where the upstream Gnome breaks compatibility, upstream Debian/Ubuntu moves on and throws old Gnome/Mutter out of availability, but the downstream Linux Mint hasn't finished fixing the breakage because of lack of human resources. Running a fork eliminates such risk. Yes, it is more work this way. But it is safe.

Apt package system in Debian/Ubuntu is NOT providing multiple versions of Gnome/Mutter simultaneously for the same distribution version. Your suggestion of "they don't necessarily have to update to every major Gnome version" just doesn't work.

[esbeeb]

Is there a reason to use LMDE instead of Debian and just install the cinnamon package?

Cinnamon in Debian is nowhere close to Linux Mint's Cinnamon experience as a whole. In Debian, you won't get the much-nicer, much-more-streamlined installer, the excellent "Input Method" setup wizard (say, if you speak Mandarin or Japanese), nor the nice welcome screen. These are just a few of the highly impactful differences off the top of my head.

The Linux Mint developers understand the implications of the following chart (source here), doing what they can to bring meaningful simplifications and psychological familiarity to their end users. These quality-of-life improvements mean a great deal to vast demographic swathes of humanity (which is to say, all the colors below that green 5% at the top, which most forum members here can't really "think outside the box" of).

computer-skill-levels-by-country.png

Sure, Gnome and KDE bring their own simplifications - but they don't scratch any itches I actually have. If those Desktops scratch your itches, go on and sing those praises where suitable elsewhere, but there's no sense in stealing any of Linux Mint's well-deserved thunder - it's just petty behaviour.

[reba]

Thank you all for your feedback to my question.
It was not meant to be petty or something.
As it just seems the improvements LM provides are not of personal importance to me but I am glad there are people for which those are.

[user1]

You forgot the risk where the upstream Gnome breaks compatibility

Which compatibility breakage do you mean?
If you mean compatibility breakage with Gnome extensions in every major Gnome version, I think many people blow it way out of proportions. Yes, in the latest Gnome 45 there are some serious changes that require all extensions to be modified, but in most other versions, in many cases extensions made for a previous major Gnome version may sometimes just work on the next version without any modifications. I use Gnome and I witnessed it myself.

Btw, you're right that they can only use the Gnome version which Ubuntu/Debian proves (I forgot about that).