TrueOS Finishes Porting Scripts To OpenRC

[duby229]

Yeah right. I believe that 5-7 seconds is possible but I highly doubt 2 is possible. Maybe with KolibriOS 'cause it's writtein Assembly and super-lightweight or even MenuetOS (Gentoo is lightweight but not as lightweight as Kolibri and Menuet).

It's possible. Hell, even like 2004 it was possible. You can make Gentoo as lightweight as you want it to be. You literally have control over every package and every dependency. I've seen stage 1 tarballs only like 50MB, very tiny.

[starshipeleven]

It's possible. Hell, even like 2004 it was possible. You can make Gentoo as lightweight as you want it to be. You literally have control over every package and every dependency.

Not even LEDE boots so fast and it is a router distro whose whole kernel+system fits in 4-ish MB and has like 5 services total to start on boot (apart from hardware initialization). Ignoring the bootloader wait times (that are the same whatever you boot), it takes 5 seconds or so with a default-ish config.

With SSDs of course you can pull that off, with a light userspace, but that's due to SSD brute speed. In 2004, no SSDs so no way.

[duby229]

Not even LEDE boots so fast and it is a router distro whose whole kernel+system fits in 4-ish MB and has like 5 services total to start on boot (apart from hardware initialization). Ignoring the bootloader wait times (that are the same whatever you boot), it takes 5 seconds or so with a default-ish config.

With SSDs of course you can pull that off, with a light userspace, but that's due to SSD brute speed. In 2004, no SSDs so no way.

Yeah, and the rom is prolly on a 8 bit buss or something really slow, where reading 4MB takes that long. My system right now is installed a RAID 5 array, using regular disks and I didn't try to very hard to keep slim, and it boots in like 5 seconds.

[aht0]

I don't think TrueOS uses bash by default either, I'm unsure if it it installs it in its default install.

(t)csh. Bash is usually installed though, because plenty of other packages from Linux "want" it.

[starshipeleven]

Yeah, and the rom is prolly on a 8 bit buss or something really slow, where reading 4MB takes that long.

it is not, it's the write speed that sucks arse on raw flash (I looked at the thing booting through the debug serial console many times, I know full well what's going on), the whole system is in RAM in less than a second after the bootloader started loading it, what takes time is hardware initialization and service startup.

Besides, there are x86 builds of LEDE too, like for example for my Geodes, or more modern and powerful stuff, and startup times aren't much different there either.

My system right now is installed a RAID 5 array, using regular disks and I didn't try to very hard to keep slim, and it boots in like 5 seconds.

FYI: we were talking of 2 seconds to boot. That's unrealistic unless you have SSD RAIDs or a NVMe SSD.

Btw, weren't you using a RAID0 with SSDs?

[duby229]

it is not, it's the write speed that sucks arse on raw flash (I looked at the thing booting through the debug serial console many times, I know full well what's going on), the whole system is in RAM in less than a second after the bootloader started loading it, what takes time is hardware initialization and service startup.

Besides, there are x86 builds of LEDE too, like for example for my Geodes, or more modern and powerful stuff, and startup times aren't much different there either.

FYI: we were talking of 2 seconds to boot. That's unrealistic unless you have SSD RAIDs or a NVMe SSD.

Btw, weren't you using a RAID0 with SSDs?

Well of course you're right that boot time bottlenecks aren't often disk IO, I think that's what you mean. I do agree. And also it depends on what services and drivers load, they aren't all the same quality. I'd would have to argue though, that the less you choose to load on boot the more disk IO sensitive boot times become, but when you're talking about 100MB, even a single hdd can do that in less than a couple seconds. I run a XFCE desktop and immediately after boot there is only 165MB RAM used. It's an incredibly small footprint.

I do suppose if your using a genkernel built initrd, then it'll probably take a second or two just to load that thing. But mine is a whole lot lighter than theirs.

EDIT: re SSD array. Yeah that array for a different purpose, both arrays are on the same system though.

[starshipeleven]

I do suppose if your using a genkernel built initrd, then it'll probably take a second or two just to load that thing. But mine is a whole lot lighter than theirs.

With "theirs" you don't mean LEDE's, I hope.

[duby229]

With "theirs" you don't mean LEDE's, I hope.

As I said, I was talking about a genkernel built initrd.

[aht0]

It takes ~40sec booting LEDE x86-64 generic using mech hard drive. Though I did use one I compiled against glibc, not musl and the image itself contained bunch of stuff. Wasn't thus much different from pre-systemd linuxes.

What's the importance of boot times? Do you restart your machines in every 2min or so?

Try using SAS RAID controller in a PC, chasing superior IO. Some of the cards themselves may boot/start up like 2-5min. Yeah, it's actually server-grade hardware but it nicely illustrates a point: boot time is important to only home users, and even there, to the portion of it.
Most do not care if it takes 5 seconds or 20. It has no meaning at all on servers.

BSD kernel.. Disable the services you do not need (rc-update) and be done with it - if it annoys you. I also do get annoyed by 1:30 timeouts systemd likes to produce now and then.

[starshipeleven]

It takes ~40sec booting LEDE x86-64 generic using mech hard drive. Though I did use one I compiled against glibc, not musl and the image itself contained bunch of stuff. Wasn't thus much different from pre-systemd linuxes.

well, that's not a really common situation for a LEDE system, so yeah, I hope it made sense for your usecase.
Most cases on x86 hardware you place the LEDE "firmware" on a USB flashdrive or sdcard, it does not write anywhere near enough to wear them out.

What's the importance of boot times? Do you restart your machines in every 2min or so?

there were some claims that a guy got a full linux system booted in 2 seconds thanks to OpenRC, I pointed out that's not realistic unless SSDs are involved.

Try using SAS RAID controller in a PC, chasing superior IO. Some of the cards themselves may boot/start up like 2-5min.

SAS RAID controllers are for fast-ish data storage, not for "superior IO". If I want superior IO I install SSDs or NVMe SSDs in dumb RAID0.

I also do get annoyed by 1:30 timeouts systemd likes to produce now and then.

None forces you to use a software that actually points out if there are issues for you to go and fix. You can always change its timeout to something much shorter, alter this in the systemd config.
DefaultTimeoutStartSec=