systemd Rolling Out "run0" As sudo Alternative

[cynic]

Lately, I've been thinking about the following regarding systemd in general: It already has so many subprojects and it tries to do more and more stuff.. But the big question is, are all of these subprojects properly maintained and is there enough man power to properly maintain them?

I've already voiced my total dissatisfaction with systemd-resolved on this forum - about how it just stops resolving DNS randomly and its serious bugs that are still open for years, which makes me think systemd devs simply don't have the time or man power to fix them. I mean I can't come up with any other explanation to why these bugs are open for 3, 4 or even more years.

wrt the "DNS bug" is not a lack of man power keeping it open, it's not recognizing it as a bug.
systemd dev think this is the way it is supposed to work.

[Artim]

[ btw, how tell people Earth is not center of a solarsystem, if 99% are told so and believing on it; but in reality progress followed ]

Yes, because of progress there is systemd, not the abominations nobody in their right mind is using anymore.

[back2未來]

Yes, because of progress there is systemd, not the abominations nobody in their right mind is using anymore.

[ pls define 'nobody in their right mind' ]

[slalomsk8er]

[ pls define 'nobody in their right mind' ]

Why the []'s and are you translating your posts from Chinese/Japanese?
Sorry for the question but I have difficulties to read your posts.

[Artim]

[ pls define 'nobody in their right mind' ]

Look at which distros use systemd and which not. And then look at people using each. Also look at what 99% of all programs use that would need e.g. in init system. Then you can answer that question for yourself.

[rafanelli]

I agree with the criticism that systemd is too monolithic: the userland part of the Linux kernel. But then nobody took up the work of providing a better experience than the systemd devs (RedHar, right?) did, and since all sizable distros have adopted it it must do something well.

So if systemd needs to be broken up. Then how? And why was it not designed in a more modular fashion to begin with?

I can imagine in 5 or 10+ years, after most common CLI tools Rust ports have taken over, and the Kernel is slowly becoming more and more Rust, that systemd gets re-designed (to be more modular) and re-implemented (to me more memsafe and easier to hack on) in Rust.

RHEL 7 switched from sysV systemd in 2014 (and it being RHEL is was later than most distros). Systemd itself is first released in 2010. We must all envy how successful this project is. Wayland in comparison, was released in 2008 and only now gets mainstream distro default adoption.

To all systemd haters: the world is not going back to sysV. Are there any alternatives that would --according to you-- be good to replace systemd with? And/or do you have any design goals/principles to govern a systemd competitor?

[holunder]

Can you recommend an alternative(s) to me? I don't like the sound of any of that. I'm still new to mastodon and trying to figure everything out. I figured mastodon.social would be a safe bet just since it's the "default"

Not really because the fediverse isn’t an oligopoly with only a handful of recommendable places. There are lots of cool instances out there, some geographically, others more interest-based. But it’s also not as if your account on Mastodon•social is in dire need to migrate to elsewhere, just keep an eye open about how the situation develops further.

[milo_hoffman]

Well, at least this is a DIFFERENT and novel solution to sudo functionality, than just emulating/replacing the existing system. It remains to be seen if this is maybe more secure, or if there is a performance hit or something when starting an entire new context for every command but it is at least different.

[skeevy420]

The basic problem with packaging more and more into systemd is not that it happens, but that it happens in a way that is not interoperable.

No-one would care if you could take a distro, and switch out systemd package tot sysV and be done. But since systemd is written in such a way that it is not possible, it becomes a problem.

Same has happened previously with DE:s. You are supposed to just be able to install a DE package and run another DE on your setup. But in practice it's very problematic, and people just suggest to install a spin of the OS with the desired DE.

These are issues of people not caring to be interoperable, since their project is all that matters.

You're highlighting a bigger problem with computing in general -- a combination of how there aren't always standards and protocols, like POSIX and Wayland, for developers to follow and that when they exist to be followed, they aren't always followed or done in a compliant manner. That's why we have a clusterfuck under ~/.config, ~/.local, $HOME, and other places just for configuration files. God forbid "Linux" could agree on a database/registry way to configure things like Regedit or Gconf instead of the shotgun blast of plaintext, databases, XML, JSON, etc we currently have.

Systemd is the same and both user1's post questioning the quality of resolved and Kjell's post about Arch/Artix dependencies really highlight it. A lot of things get added to systemd but it's like there is no framework around how systemd does things and how to systematically replace what you do and don't like about systemd from some other project. Not saying that stubs and compatibility layers aren't in use, but people speak of swapping systemd and systemd modules like it's as easy as switching windows managers on an X11 system when it's more like switching window managers on a Wayland system (standards and protocols only do so much when interoperability isn't part of them or there isn't a common base to work with like with X11 & Wayland).

You go to remove a package and 14 systemd packages come up for removal. You go to install a package and you're not asked if you'd like to use systemd-cryptsetup or openrc-cryptsetup like how KDE asks about gstreamer and vlc backends or how you get to pick between mpv or mplayer for some things. It's not like we can run update-alternatives on systemd and openrc modules. Unless you're a hardcore geek, you're basically stuck with whatever init system your distribution ships.

I'm mostly saying systemd up there, but it's really an init system issue. You can't blame systemd too much when there isn't a standard to follow or standard governing body to join to better cooperate with others.

[Artim]

God forbid "Linux" could agree on a database/registry way to configure things like Regedit or Gconf instead of the shotgun blast of plaintext, databases, XML, JSON, etc we currently have.

Sure, lets do things the worst way possible, the Windows way that's being abused by malware/ad ware and is just undecipherable by 99+ % of all users. Sure, dconf is leaps and bounds better - not that hard to do things better than MS - but that's also owed to the fact that only Gnome apps integrate with it, not every single goddamn app there is. Thanks, but especially the way of just putting system-wide configs to /etc - and distros like Debian enforcing that practice - is hands down the most sane option there is. So yes, Linux has afreed on a sensible way to configure things, and the best thing about is that it's not the MS way of doing things.