Pop!_OS Upgrades To The Linux 6.8 Kernel

[Panix]

What is not true? That there is no big company behind the distribution and therefore they don't have any proper QA?

On the contrary, it poses a danger to beginners and people who are not aware of the risks of deploying such fresh software.

We could discuss security risks further.

It's like a backup.

However, if the user is aware of all the risks, then I agree that concerns about hardware problems are overblown, as someone above writes.

What risk? They use hardware with the same chipset that is in tons of other components - so most will be similar or exactly the same - there's nothing really unique - they probably even pick components that have open source (just guessing - but, if they use wifi parts - they probably don't want closed source firmware or whatever doesn't install smoothly - since, they don't want upset customers who come back to them that something isn't working).

If I have any problem with Pop or distros - it's all this fragmentation - there's the Ubuntu base and then a bunch of 'offshoots' or 'spins' - Mint Linux, Pop OS and a bunch of others - all those devs could just work on one or a few - so, that it's easy to manage 1 or 2 and the team would be bigger.

But, alas, that's not the situation and for beginners or those who want to keep with an Ubuntu base but don't want straight Ubuntu for whatever reason, Pop OS is a good alternative - the only thing is they build mostly around Gnome so if you don't like that, you might try Cosmic or switch to a KDE-centric distro of something else.

System 76 / Pop OS - is probably a good choice to test your hardware - which is ironic given the claims/accusations - since, they're a company that sells hardware and distributes a distro with it.

[xAlt7x]

Pop isn't made for general usage, only for usage on their own hardware. It may run on other hardware too but there won't be testing for it, so chances are high you'll run into issues.

Not talking about concerns though, but real life experience. Back when I used that dumpsterfire, every single major Kernel update came with yet another annoying issue. Even Debian Testing is leaps and bounds more stable and thus usable.

Ok, I kinda agree that people might benefit from using distros that were certified for some OEM hardware.
However, I fail to see how Debian Testing is more a "general usage" distro. Even the name implies that it shouldn't be used in production (not to mention transition breakages and delayed security fixes).
Unless you can provide some facts that Pop!_OS downstream changes break something specifically for non-System76 HW, I take your statements as a pure speculations.
P.S. I don't use Ubuntu or Ubuntu-based distros (including Pop!_OS) because they don't provide "Ubuntu Pro" security fixes for vulnerable packages in the Ubuntu's "Universe" repo. Other than that, I don't see what makes Pop!_OS less "general usage OS" than any other distro that pushes kernel updates faster than Ubuntu or Debian Testing (Fedora, Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed etc.).

[mmstick]

If anybody still wants to recommend Pop for beginners in general, this article shows why it's not.



Pop isn't made for general usage, only for usage on their own hardware. It may run on other hardware too but there won't be testing for it, so chances are high you'll run into issues.

This is complete nonsense.

only for usage on their own hardware

It may run on other hardware too but there won't be testing for it

The same is true of any Linux distribution and organization: Arch, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, KDE, GNOME, etc. It either runs on the hardware that their maintainers have on hand, or they don't see any issues and release it. It's also true of every Linux kernel maintainer only being able to test the hardware they have on hand.

There's a much higher chance that System76's hardware lab is able to identify hardware regressions affecting a wider population because System76 sells a lot of systems with a wide range of hardware. On top of all the testing performed by Linux kernel and driver maintainers, and the testing performed by Debian and Ubuntu, System76 adds an additional layer of testing with a wide range of hardware in the System76 hardware lab. Not only does QA test System76 hardware, but the HP Dev One and any personal hardware that they have access to.

Therefore, System76's testing coverage is greater than you will see in other distributions. After all, how many distributions do you know are testing every possible combination of AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hybrid graphics laptops with the latest AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hardware? As well as testing the latest AMD/Intel/NVIDIA desktop configurations? QA even tests games on Steam as part of their checklist.

[skeevy420]

This is complete nonsense.

A very technical, pedantic reading of the PopOS site's descriptions of PopOS does say it isn't for general use ....and a need for an editor to fix erroneous comma usage

Welcome to Pop!_OS

Pop!_OS is an operating system for STEM and creative professionals who use their computer as a tool to discover and create. Unleash your potential on secure, reliable open source software. Based on your exceptional curiosity, we sense you have a lot of it.

Y'all clearly say it's for STEM and creative professionals, not beginners or for general use

I was serious about the commas:

Workflow Customization

While you’ve got your wheels turning, take the scenic route with a dock and touchpad gestures, or race along a minimalist track from behind the wheel of a revving keyboard. With a variety of both mouse-driven and keyboard-driven customizations, you’re empowered to navigate your workflow the way you’ve always wanted.

Remove the comma between "gestures, or"

Auto-Tiling With Pop Shell has the same comma issue trying to fix a double-and use. It needs to be rewritten.

Development toolkits work flawlessly also has an unnecessary comma after management

Engineering just reads weird. Break ground and leave what where?

Media Production goes from a sentence list to a comma list. List styles change mid-list.

Design a character. Animate it. Give it a voice, then tell its story. Stream your technique to hundreds of young artists. No subscription required.

I'd write "Give it a voice. Tell its story."

Anyhoo, I'm taking my Mom to get laser eye surgery in an hour so I don't really have the time to finish my pedantic reading of that page.

The same is true of any Linux distribution and organization: Arch, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, KDE, GNOME, etc. It either runs on the hardware that their maintainers have on hand, or they don't see any issues and release it. It's also true of every Linux kernel maintainer only being able to test the hardware they have on hand.

There's a much higher chance that System76's hardware lab is able to identify hardware regressions affecting a wider population because System76 sells a lot of systems with a wide range of hardware. On top of all the testing performed by Linux kernel and driver maintainers, and the testing performed by Debian and Ubuntu, System76 adds an additional layer of testing with a wide range of hardware in the System76 hardware lab. Not only does QA test System76 hardware, but the HP Dev One and any personal hardware that they have access to.

Therefore, System76's testing coverage is greater than you will see in other distributions. After all, how many distributions do you know are testing every possible combination of AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hybrid graphics laptops with the latest AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hardware? As well as testing the latest AMD/Intel/NVIDIA desktop configurations? QA even tests games on Steam as part of their checklist.

I'm sorry you have to describe how Linux works on a Linux forum.

[pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx]

If anybody still wants to recommend Pop for beginners in general, this article shows why it's not.



Pop isn't made for general usage, only for usage on their own hardware. It may run on other hardware too but there won't be testing for it, so chances are high you'll run into issues.

This is such a bizarre and ass backwards way to look at things. I thought the most interesting part of Michael's post was that they caught the issue with their own testing and none of their users had to deal with regressions from the 6.7 kernel. Of course they aren't testing every random hardware configuration possible that they don't sell. Guess what? Most distros have zero actual testing. They just have some tiered repo structure and let their users get hit by and report all the issues the maintainers don't notice on their own systems. Do you think Debian has a huge hardware lab set up for Unstable or Testing where they thoroughly test new kernels on a bunch of different hardware configurations?

[chocolate]

If anybody still wants to recommend Pop for beginners in general, this article shows why it's not.



Pop isn't made for general usage, only for usage on their own hardware. It may run on other hardware too but there won't be testing for it, so chances are high you'll run into issues.

Very sorry things didn't go smoothly for you, as you explain in your other comment. Consider this comment of mine just a bit of chitchat, I'm not here to discredit your experience.
I had a hunch Pop!_OS could work better on generic hardware compared to other distros (since they probably still support a range of very diverse Clevos going back many years), and my own experiments proved it. I'll take an OS coming from a company that does actual hardware integration any day compared to, say, Fedora or Ubuntu, that are found on one unimpressive laptop once in a blue moon. I've been on and off Fedora and Arch, tried openSUSE Aeon (prev. MicroOS) for about a year. I have been using Pop on desktop for years, but have been looking far and wide for something more "serious" to use on laptop. Now I realize just how stupid I was, and honestly believe that Pop is the most serious user-oriented distro since the inception of Ubuntu and the days of "Linux for human beings".

I recently wrote on these forums about a laptop that's pretty obscure for the west. I wanted something small, lightweight, with decent battery life (possibly with one hot-swappable battery, like ThinkPads up to the X270 as far as 12" models go), fairly rugged, serviceable, with ISO or JIS keyboard, with a decent screen, and most importantly, no braindead "upwards wedge" shape that cuts into your wrists. I tell you, I've been searching for years. Settled on the Panasonic CF-MX5, the last 12" model in that series, if I understand correctly (only Skylake-U, but I don't need much computational power on the go).
All this to come to a hopefully funny anecdote: I didn't even know it had a gyro before trying Pop!_OS on it. It's a convertible, and it automatically orients itself in any direction, but only Pop does it out of the box.
I had been using it for months with literally useless distros because I was adamant about transitioning to an immutable one. It's not like Pop is ever going to break if I use distroboxes and flatpaks for everything else. I can treat it like it's immutable with the advantage that, if I really need a system-wide package, I don't have to sit in front of the screen for (sometimes literal) hours for the thing to do its job. Immutable distros are absolute pigs right now; only openSUSE has somewhat usable technology.
But enough with my ramblings. Have a good day!

[xAlt7x]

A very technical, pedantic reading of the PopOS site's descriptions of PopOS does say it isn't for general use ....and a need for an editor to fix erroneous comma usage

They have "Edit on Github" button on that page. So perhaps you can also contribute via pull request.

[Rovano]

This is complete nonsense.




The same is true of any Linux distribution and organization: Arch, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, KDE, GNOME, etc. It either runs on the hardware that their maintainers have on hand, or they don't see any issues and release it. It's also true of every Linux kernel maintainer only being able to test the hardware they have on hand.

There's a much higher chance that System76's hardware lab is able to identify hardware regressions affecting a wider population because System76 sells a lot of systems with a wide range of hardware. On top of all the testing performed by Linux kernel and driver maintainers, and the testing performed by Debian and Ubuntu, System76 adds an additional layer of testing with a wide range of hardware in the System76 hardware lab. Not only does QA test System76 hardware, but the HP Dev One and any personal hardware that they have access to.

Therefore, System76's testing coverage is greater than you will see in other distributions. After all, how many distributions do you know are testing every possible combination of AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hybrid graphics laptops with the latest AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hardware? As well as testing the latest AMD/Intel/NVIDIA desktop configurations? QA even tests games on Steam as part of their checklist.

I am pleasantly surprised. I had no idea they were so soaked.

[Rovano]

What risk? They use hardware with the same chipset that is in tons of other components - so most will be similar or exactly the same - there's nothing really unique - they probably even pick components that have open source (just guessing - but, if they use wifi parts - they probably don't want closed source firmware or whatever doesn't install smoothly - since, they don't want upset customers who come back to them that something isn't working).

If I have any problem with Pop or distros - it's all this fragmentation - there's the Ubuntu base and then a bunch of 'offshoots' or 'spins' - Mint Linux, Pop OS and a bunch of others - all those devs could just work on one or a few - so, that it's easy to manage 1 or 2 and the team would be bigger.

But, alas, that's not the situation and for beginners or those who want to keep with an Ubuntu base but don't want straight Ubuntu for whatever reason, Pop OS is a good alternative - the only thing is they build mostly around Gnome so if you don't like that, you might try Cosmic or switch to a KDE-centric distro of something else.

System 76 / Pop OS - is probably a good choice to test your hardware - which is ironic given the claims/accusations - since, they're a company that sells hardware and distributes a distro with it.

As I write above, I am positively surprised how much they test it. I had no idea they were so screwed up.

And that about errors in new software is simply due to its newness. We don't have to argue about that, because there is always a risk of regression.

After a few months, it is discovered that data is being lost, etc.
It belongs to it.

[Artim]

Ok, I kinda agree that people might benefit from using distros that were certified for some OEM hardware.
However, I fail to see how Debian Testing is more a "general usage" distro. Even the name implies that it shouldn't be used in production (not to mention transition breakages and delayed security fixes).
Unless you can provide some facts that Pop!_OS downstream changes break something specifically for non-System76 HW, I take your statements as a pure speculations.
P.S. I don't use Ubuntu or Ubuntu-based distros (including Pop!_OS) because they don't provide "Ubuntu Pro" security fixes for vulnerable packages in the Ubuntu's "Universe" repo. Other than that, I don't see what makes Pop!_OS less "general usage OS" than any other distro that pushes kernel updates faster than Ubuntu or Debian Testing (Fedora, Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed etc.).

How clearly do I have to make myself? I literally said that I was speaking from real life experience. And yes, I was talking about non S76 hardware. Be it a kernel module/driver that wouldn't load by default after a kernel update or a number of other issues. Been there, done that. Never doing that again.

The fact that even Debian Testing has was less issues than Pop should tell you enough. Especially because testing isn't meant for productive use while Pop is.