SDL3 Will Keep Wayland Default At Least For The Time Being

[bobbie424242]

fifo-v1 and commit-timing-v1 is absolutely shit-hot tech ! That has replaced the kernel OOM killer as the hotest Linux tech for 2024.
2050 cannot come fast enough for Wayland to be complete.

[varikonniemi]

fifo-v1 and commit-timing-v1 is absolutely shit-hot tech ! That has replaced the kernel OOM killer as the hotest Linux tech for 2024.
2050 cannot come fast enough for Wayland to be complete.

It will take a long time, just look at X, still not complete. And still so old and shitty it's in the process of being abandoned. It's almost as if any non-trivial software never is completed.

And the hottest X11 feature of 2024 is the inability to have screensaver/lock trigger if any context menu is open.

[openminded]

... And as a humble developer you can't just kick open a door to your boss and scream in his face "lets do f**king deployment now" when you are on a salary.

But I've got a feeling that sometimes you want to do exactly that lol

[ehansin]

When the article a few days was posted that SDL3 was going to default to Wayland over X11, I read the comments and came across the shared link showing the discussion around the desire to maybe not do this. I read the arguments for and against. I get well enough the issues. I have no horse in this race, just curious about it all.

For myself, I no longer even bother with any X11 native desktop environments or window managers, just use Wayland stuff. I admit, I am not a "power user", but I have been happy with it all in all. The more I wrap my head around how Wayland works, and the how there is a core protocol kept "simple" by intention, with additional functionality made available via additional protocols - I like it conceptually. And I know there are a lot of old X11 people behind the project and design. I assume these people know their stuff. Current hardware just isn't the same as 1980s and 1990s hardware.

If they do stick with Wayland, and sounds like they are giving it a chance, I hope it helps push forward the protocol ecosystem that from the sounds of things here, can sometimes feel like is a little slow to come around. To be fair, I also get the desire to "get things right" to not get stuck with bad ideas. Like many things, there are nuances involved. Not defending anything, just an observation.

Based on this article, sounds like Wayland people are on-board to try and make this work. Valve is a big company and an important one when it comes to the graphics space in Linux. With Valve and Wayland people together trying to push and solve these problems, we can all benefit. For the foreseeable future, Wayland is going nowhere (and neither is X11 in its own way!) Happy to see any progress this helps push along.

[rmfx]

Good choice.
Wayland support procrastination will never bring true progress.
I prefer issues being tackled right now than always later...

[ReaperX7]

The main reason why many people are saying Wayland is a joke is the fact that XFree86 4.x took only five years to fully mature before Xorg took back control with X11R6 after the licensing issues.

Wayland has been out for over a decade and still has failed to deliver on its promises. It's still mostly broken.

Some of you say its "dead" and "old" really have no clue about how software works and what package stability means. Just because something isn't actively developed doesn't mean it's dead or abandoned. X still gets distribution level patches.

All Wayland did really was divide resources, development teams, and interest. It's droned on long enough to show it's pointless to continue when protocols can't be merged in a timely fashion. All of this could have been used to redevelop X11 to improve designs, security, driver handling, etc.

And yes, people's gripe with Red Hat is what it is, because they're literally the Microsoft of Linux wanting their Windows clone. That's been known for over 20 years.

[spicfoo]

The main reason why many people are saying Wayland is a joke is the fact that XFree86 4.x took only five years to fully mature.

Oh ok. I am learning today that X11 development started with XFree86 and all the decades of work on it before and multiple other implementations does not count.

[yoshi314]

I'm 100% for Wayland, but these protocols should not take multiple years to be merged. This is a serious problem, and Red Hat keep employing the same guys that like to stall protocols for no good reason and make contributing to Wayland a torture. No wonder the narrative that Wayland is an invention by Red Hat to destroy the Linux desktop is gaining steam.

Or these same 3 or 4 guys do something, or they should to be fired to Wayland go forward.

well, they definitely have to be done right. Wayland is becoming too serious to become a moving target with all its protocols/apis in constant flux.

So in that regard, i can understand the delays. But maybe not to this extent.

[Vermilion]

I'm 100% for Wayland, but these protocols should not take multiple years to be merged. This is a serious problem, and Red Hat keep employing the same guys that like to stall protocols for no good reason and make contributing to Wayland a torture. No wonder the narrative that Wayland is an invention by Red Hat to destroy the Linux desktop is gaining steam.

Or these same 3 or 4 guys do something, or they should to be fired to Wayland go forward.

You never followed how Wayland protocols get developed and merged, did you?

All new protocols require consensus, prototyping and acknowledgement from stakeholders including developers from kwin, mutter, wlroots, weston

It's not bad Red Hat and it's evil developers dictating protocols for their subjects to follow..
There's no point in pushing new protocols quickly if no one agrees to follow them later. And consensus takes time.

[treba]

The main reason why many people are saying Wayland is a joke is the fact that XFree86 4.x took only five years to fully mature before Xorg took back control with X11R6 after the licensing issues.

Wayland has been out for over a decade and still has failed to deliver on its promises. It's still mostly broken.

Some of you say its "dead" and "old" really have no clue about how software works and what package stability means. Just because something isn't actively developed doesn't mean it's dead or abandoned. X still gets distribution level patches.

All Wayland did really was divide resources, development teams, and interest. It's droned on long enough to show it's pointless to continue when protocols can't be merged in a timely fashion. All of this could have been used to redevelop X11 to improve designs, security, driver handling, etc.

And yes, people's gripe with Red Hat is what it is, because they're literally the Microsoft of Linux wanting their Windows clone. That's been known for over 20 years.

X11 can't properly handle more than one monitor to this day, one of the many issues Wayland has fixed. That's why X11 is dead.