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systemd Breached One Million Lines Of Code In 2017

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  • #71
    Originally posted by unixfan2001 View Post
    To all the people who still don't understand Open Source: We, the developers, owe you nothing! I don't need your permission/approval/whatever to work on the software I want to work on. I don't need to ask you for your thoughts on its supposed "usefulness". This isn't a democracy and you have no power over me or others. Open Source Software Development (the Bazaar) is a free market of ideas, not unlike a University or any other academic place of learning. If you see yourself as a traditional "customer" whose every word developers are supposed to take at market value, I suggest you head for Walmart (AKA Proprietary Software/the Cathedral) instead.
    Uhm, aren't the users themselves next batch of potential developers themselves?
    Looks like devs of the open source have discovered trappings of power and let themselves to become infected..

    "Memento homo.." would be appropriate here .

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    • #72
      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Uhm, aren't the users themselves next batch of potential developers themselves?
      Looks like devs of the open source have discovered trappings of power and let themselves to become infected..

      "Memento homo.." would be appropriate here .
      Then this "next batch of potential developers" can choose to follow an old adage handed down from one generation of FOSS developers to the next.
      "Go Fork Yourself".

      It's really easy. If you disagree with the general direction an upstream project is taking, don't complain. Try to offer a viable alternative.
      For all you know that alternative might become upstream itself one day.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by aht0 View Post
        Take look at DNS leaking issue with VPN. Bug report
        https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/7182
        Why'd I post this and not 'original' bug report?
        So, someone thinks his own use case is the only valid one and the whole world (and thus systemd's defaults) should conform to that use case. Guess what? That's not how this works.

        VPN was neither invented to facilitate your illegal file sharing activities, nor is that the only relevant or even the most important use case. VPN is primarily used to access and combine corporate networks. In that case it is certainly not a given that all traffic should go over the VPN's network device by default. In fact that would even be harmful. If you need this special network behavior, you can simply configure it that way.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
          One million lines is a good start. Next stop for systemd, one billion lines of code! #OneBillionLines
          No, the next stop is one million lines of rewriting it into Rust!
          Last edited by Vistaus; 01-03-2018, 12:21 PM.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by flux242 View Post
            yes, we are well aware that systemd is a set of tools. But in many cases no one asked for them. The only reason why such tools exist is because pottering think that he knows better how to implement it. For example one of the first things that canonical so called devs broke by switching to sysytemd was power management. Lid close events were not configurable in xfce4-power-manager, neither pm-utils hooks were called any longer (i don't care if it's outdated or not, i'm still using it). Now systemd creates lots of garbage files all over the place (like binary log blobs) which makes it harder to control. For embedded systems is is crucial because of limited NAND erase cycles. How can I use a circular log buffer in memory with systemd? So currently systemd works full scale in embedded linux distributions there because nobody were able to separate so called systemd set of tools from each other for some reason. Is million loc the reason maybe? And no, I can't get rid of systemd because distr packages rely of systemd and to ditch it i'd have to package myself which would render distr useless for me.
            You don't have to package yourself. Just switch to a distro with a different init system, like Void Linux for example.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by aht0 View Post
              Why you'd accuse him of incompetence and then refuse to provide solution?
              Listen, just because you are incompetent does not mean everybody is obligated to spend time spoon feeding you.

              Take look at DNS leaking issue with VPN. Bug report
              https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/7182
              I took a look, and you're still incompetent. That's not a systemd bug at all. You are wrongly assuming that everyone using VPN is sending all the traffic through it and that systemd should cater to that. Every VPN case is different. Some wants to send specific traffic through the VPN and not everything. If you want DNS to go over the link, it's your job to make sure that happens. That's always been the case and has absolutely nothing to do with systemd. If you and others don't understand this then that's your problem.

              And scrolling downwards you can see 400 loc shell script being offered, which would mitigate the issue.
              Wasn't the whole point of that thing getting rid of shell scripts?
              You actually think the point of systemd is to replace shell scripts? Any shell scripts? Who the hell gave you that idea? Here you can see how systemd-resolved works: https://www.freedesktop.org/software...d.service.html

              Learn it or STFU.

              For the record, I'm using systemd and am in control of my DNS requests so there's no bug.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

                Make up your mind, either no one asked for these tools or no distribution started to use them. You have to choose just one of the two, they are mutually exclusive. And the tools are not used unless you specifically use them, yes a distribution can choose to install and enable them but they can also choose not to, and so too can any user (I run i.e dnsmasq instead of systemd-resolved).
                In fact, computers themselves aren't even used unless you specifically use them ;-)

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by arokh View Post
                  Listen, just because you are incompetent does not mean everybody is obligated to spend time spoon feeding you.
                  Where did I state I am using it myself, smirk? So, fast to attack and insult. Credible pro-systemd arguments there.. Wait, there was not a single argument, just cheap demagogy.

                  Originally posted by arokh View Post
                  I took a look, and you're still incompetent. That's not a systemd bug at all. You are wrongly assuming that everyone using VPN is sending all the traffic through it and that systemd should cater to that. Every VPN case is different. Some wants to send specific traffic through the VPN and not everything. If you want DNS to go over the link, it's your job to make sure that happens. That's always been the case and has absolutely nothing to do with systemd. If you and others don't understand this then that's your problem.
                  Let us ignore the fact that dnsmasq before systemd-resolved implementation could do the particular job without problems. So, let's analyze the pattern - before systemd component - shit worked. After systemd component ate dnsmasq - some particular shit stopped working properly. Ironclad logic tells us: user is at fault, right? smirk again

                  If I and others don't understand then perhaps it's problem of the software itself. Why live in automatic denial? smirk

                  Originally posted by arokh View Post
                  You actually think the point of systemd is to replace shell scripts? Any shell scripts? Who the hell gave you that idea?
                  Bunch of boyos here in Phoronix over the past couple of years..? Who kept pointing out how .bad and cumbersome sysV init and shell scripts combined are, and how systemd is supposed to make it all go away. Also it was one of the hard arguments for getting the systemd bandwagon initially rolling. Let's ditch the shell scripts, lets make it all easier..

                  Originally posted by arokh View Post
                  Here you can see how systemd-resolved works: https://www.freedesktop.org/software...d.service.html
                  Learn it or STFU.
                  For the record, I'm using systemd and am in control of my DNS requests so there's no bug.
                  Good for you. But you are not making up the whole world. Grow up.

                  Google query for "systemd dns issues" returns whopping 393 000 results.

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Originally posted by niner View Post

                    So, someone thinks his own use case is the only valid one and the whole world (and thus systemd's defaults) should conform to that use case. Guess what? That's not how this works.

                    VPN was neither invented to facilitate your illegal file sharing activities, nor is that the only relevant or even the most important use case. VPN is primarily used to access and combine corporate networks. In that case it is certainly not a given that all traffic should go over the VPN's network device by default. In fact that would even be harmful. If you need this special network behavior, you can simply configure it that way.
                    Another "I am so smart-you are so stupid"-kind of guy.

                    In my country I pay special tax from every dvd/usb stick/camcorder,phone etc I happen to buy, which will be collected and eventually dished out to organizations presenting authors. And thus I don't actually bother with VPN for file sharing at all. I can download all I want and as long as I do not start uploading copyrighted content myself (as "creating new movie torrents" etc) I don't have to worry about infamous letters "you have downloaded this and this, pay us xxxx sum or else.." So I don't even have to use VPN if I wanted to pirate.

                    I quoted case of another Phoronix user. Had you fucking bothered to read, instead of storming to sneer, you'd perhaps have noticed. To paint it red: Wasn't my issue.
                    And before you start insisting it's a isolated case: try simple thing. Type into Google: systemd dns vpn problem
                    See how many returns you get. I got in excess of 100k.

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Originally posted by aht0 View Post

                      Bunch of boyos here in Phoronix over the past couple of years..? Who kept pointing out how .bad and cumbersome sysV init and shell scripts combined are, and how systemd is supposed to make it all go away. Also it was one of the hard arguments for getting the systemd bandwagon initially rolling. Let's ditch the shell scripts, lets make it all easier..
                      It's not supposed to get rid of shell scripts (or any other scripting/programming language, for that matter) in its entirety.
                      It's supposed to get rid of shell scripts to define the actual init process as well as initial configuration stages.

                      Obviously, software that can't be configured through just unit files will still have to depend on some form of scripting.

                      That's still a far cry from SysVinit, where EVERYTHING was a massive collection of shell scripts, often interdependent of each other.

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