Devuan: Debian Without Systemd

[Ibidem]

probably not. how many libc's your linux has ?

For the record, Debian packages (e)glibc (parse that as "glibc or eglibc"), klibc, dietlibc, and musl; most of the system is built with (e)glibc, though I've seen a few klibc and dietlibc linked binaries.

[Luke_Wolf]

?!?
Debian never used Upstart...UBUNTU and derivates did.
Upstart that, IIRC, was born before systemd and was developed with great effort from UBUNTU.

However, what was relatively simple for UBUNTU do, a new init system to replace Debian init system and mantain it, won't be possible with systemd because the way it integrates with (some) programs,etc.

The work would be too much from UBUNTU PoV so they throwed down the towel.

Yes the point was that Debian and Ubuntu already weren't using the same init system, so Debian didn't force anything on Ubuntu. Instead it was already getting too difficult for them to maintain compatibility with upstream software, and Debian switching over to systemd was the last straw before they gave up and said "Well this is too much work, everyone else is going with systemd so we're going to switch."

[pal666]

Another example of a very long vendor lock-in would be gcc. We have separate gnu89, gnu99 etc language standards that are default for gcc so developers end up writing unportable code if they don't know better. Now with LLVM they tried to be innovative with compiler stack which resulted in clang having to implement large amounts of gcc peculiarities because otherwise code doesn't compile. Lock-in's looking harmless is pretty much an illusion that breaks when you find out you *want* to replace it

it is not lock-in. lock-in is when you can't move out. all gcc extensions were documented and source was available, so llvm had no problems implementing them

[pal666]

Only a masochist would do this. I would rather just refuse to put systemd on my computers than engage in such a one-sided relationship. Consequently, that is what I do.

but only a masochist would do this, lol

[pal666]

I know this is a troll post but just how would a NT kernel be made to interact with a completely *nix GNU userland?

who needs sane choices anyway ? any choice will do, whether it makes sense or not

[pal666]

UBUNTU, and all their direct and indirect derivates (i.e. XUBUNTU, KUBUNTU, LUBUNTU, Linux Mint,etc,etc.), just like all Debian derivates (witch UBUNTU is one of them) were forced by the decision from Debian

debian is forcing all derivatives !!!11 let's ban debian

[pal666]

For the record, Debian packages (e)glibc (parse that as "glibc or eglibc"), klibc, dietlibc, and musl; most of the system is built with (e)glibc, though I've seen a few klibc and dietlibc linked binaries.

well, klibc and dietlibc are not really libcs and musl is unused according to you
so, does debian forbid packages to require specific libc ?

[WizardGed]

Sometimes I wonder why you leave the gentoo mailing list.

He twisted my words when I stated my perspective and then expected me to defend something that I did not say. That is bullying via strawman arguments, not a productive conversation.

No where in Aeder's argument is any form of a strawman argument. clinging to accustations of fallacy to defend yourself is ridiculous and dilutes the conversation to unsettling proportions. I would suggest you sit down and realize your reasons for not liking Systemd is unimportant to many and more importatly to the people you rely upon for your development. You cannot force people to stop doing what they're doing just because a few say so. Developers for Gnome Udev etc. had every right to choose 1 solution over another for pragmatic reasons alone nevermind the technical. No one has forced you to drop OpenRC, feel free to use it until the end of time but realize that other people will move on and choose to integrate with Systemd today and maybe a totally diffrent new init system tomorow and you will have to do more work to support this on OpenRC because YOU chose to use OpenRC and they chose to use Systemd/New init System. None of that is their fault and screaming "what about me!" is stupid as Aeder said you had the oppurtunity to make OpenRC a better competitor for an init system and I'm sorry to say it lost with many other distro's. feel free to keep pushing OpenRC in Gentoo, if people feel they don't like this they can split off like funtoo did.

[You-]

What a moron.

Jordan Hubbard who used to work at Apple thinks non-Apple stuff should be more like...Apple.

Shocking!

You Linux kiddies really are a bunch of idiots.

calling me a moron doesnt stop FreeBSD heading in the same direction as systemd.

The *BSD's being more monolythic though, I suspect it may be harder to go back to rc.d from BSD-land than it is in Linux where there are still some hold outs from the systemd way of doing things.

[somini]

debian is forcing all derivatives !!!11 let's ban debian

Using the word "forcing" in this context is just laughable. They are derivatives for a reason.