Debian Init System Coupling Vote Results

[jukk]

This is a disappointment for anyone who believes the openness and choice are important in a community that is supposed to be built upon those two values.

That is a contradictory statement. Unrestricted and fair voting itself is about openness and choice.

[pal666]

Such an "alternative" can never be a true alternative if everything either depends on systemd or is incorporated into it

nothing depends on systemd. it depends on interfaces. so, pull your hands out of your ass and provide those interfaces in your shitty alternative

[AJSB]

This might sound trollish but it isn't...

I'm actually very pleased with this decision...it makes all my decisions about OS/distros so much easier ...from now on, i only use one of these:

Slackware, PC-BSD/FreeBSD or...Window$.

Yeah, you read it right....at last resort, i will return to Window$ if the other 3 cave in to PulseAudio and/or Systemd...i simply have no more patience for distros that force things that brake games,etc. (i.e. i have severe problems with some games and PA) or, IIRC, simply won't boot after install (funny, all those use...systemd).

This is not to argue, is simply a declaration of intentions, take it for what it is.
If you are happy with way things are going with Linux, PA & systemd, more power to you.

YMMV.

[ceage]

This is a disappointment for anyone who believes the openness and choice are important in a community that is supposed to be built upon those two values.

Choice is just the concept of picking an option. It has zero practical value by itself. Options have value. An environment where new options can be developed freely has value. FLOSS is such an environment. Should an option that's superior to systemd become available, systemd will get replaced in the same way as sysvinit got replaced by systemd. However, when someone demands more options for the sake of choice, they're either confused or they're trying to confuse others.
In this sense, the Linux-is-all-about-choice mantra is rhetorical nonsense. All it does is encourage people to care about establishing and maintaining some specific policy, rather than seeing policy as something to help them achieve practical goals.

In recent years, Debian has become an example of what such a mentality can result in. By means of the Debian Consitution, the project members imposed upon themselves an obligation to make policy, process and procedure higher priorities than the technical advancement of the project itself. The document doesn't explicitly state this of course, but that's the effect that it has. As a consequence the project is in danger of being transformed into a playground for people who either see discussions about policy as an end in itself, or are prone to carry their personal problems into the public and might even abuse policy to this end.
Nevertheless, it would be wrong to pin the current issues on any particular individual or group, and Joey Hess already nailed it when he said that the Debian Constitution is a poisonous document. It talks a lot about the technicalities of decisions-making, but it doesn't do a good job of addressing issues that might arise when some project participant forgot to take their pills. In other words, it doesn't address human nature. Which it should, because the project's success depends on those individuals who are willing to make contributions.

[Aguazul]

Forgot to ask the users

the majority wins and is the end of it, these guys need to learn to lose and stop this nonsense

They forgot to ask the users. It is like all the members of parliament agree on some crazy new plan, but not the population of the country. But we the people do get a vote, in terms of installing some other distro or OS if Debian fails to remain init-system-agnostic. I think Ian Jackson is representing my interests better than the rest of Debian right now.

[pal666]

This might sound trollish but it isn't...

I'm actually very pleased with this decision...it makes all my decisions about OS/distros so much easier ...from now on, i only use one of these:

Slackware, PC-BSD/FreeBSD or...Window$.

because windows has sysvinit and alsa/oss. what a moron

(i.e. i have severe problems with some games and PA) or, IIRC, simply won't boot after install

i have not problems with games and pa or with booting after install. what am i doing wrong ?

[AJSB]

because windows has sysvinit and alsa/oss. what a moron
i have not problems with games and pa or with booting after install. what am i doing wrong ?

LOL, i tought that everybody here had enough brain cells to "get it"

But let me explain for the obviously mental challenged:

Window$ ? YES, because ALL my games work in Window$ w/o problems (that can't be easely solved as opposite to some games that REFUSE to have audio in distros using PA).

...now go back to a mirror and look to yourself and say "what a moron".

EoD.

[pal666]

They forgot to ask the users. It is like all the members of parliament agree on some crazy new plan, but not the population of the country.

more batshit crazy ideas from systemd haters. parliament is employed by population, while debian devs are not employed by users.

But we the people do get a vote, in terms of installing some other distro or OS if Debian fails to remain init-system-agnostic. I think Ian Jackson is representing my interests better than the rest of Debian right now.

so go fuck yourself with him and freebsd

[pal666]

Window$ ? YES, because ALL my games work in Window$ w/o problems (that can't be easely solved as opposite to some games that REFUSE to have audio in distros using PA).

but most of games do not work under linux without pa either. or under freebsd. so you are still moron

[GreatEmerald]

They forgot to ask the users. It is like all the members of parliament agree on some crazy new plan, but not the population of the country. But we the people do get a vote, in terms of installing some other distro or OS if Debian fails to remain init-system-agnostic. I think Ian Jackson is representing my interests better than the rest of Debian right now.

You're free to do so. The voting is by Debian developers, because it's Debian developers who will need to do the job of maintaining it all in the first place!