Debian Developer Resigns From The Systemd Maintainership Team

[Gusar]

you are begining to just make me sound like i don't know what i'm talking about

Exactly! I am doubting your words. Very sure I'm not the only one here. So I'm asking for some proof, but you refuse to give that. What possible conclusion is there then, other than things are *not* as trivial as you make them to be.

so much for this talk, i won't reply to you anymore

Umm, yeah. I could say something more, but I'll leave it at that.

[halfmanhalfamazing]

I like how this topic has went way off topic. This is an article about a package maintainer who was essentially run out of town by online bullies. I wouldn't be surprised if the same people responsible for harassing him are also Gamergate supporters and who also fully back sexually harassing female members of the media and gaming community who dare speak out against the sexism and entitlement of these poor excuses for human beings.

Gamergate is about journalistic malpractice. Period. End of story.

This sexism nonsense is a misdirect by the very same malpracticioning journlists who are like cockroaches - they prefer to live in the shadows.

They don't want the light shined in their direction. So they cried rape. Quick! Everybody look over there!

Turn your clock back to the very, very beginning of gamergate. Watch how the lights got flicked on, and watch how the cockroaches scattered.

[scottishduck]

Gamergate is about journalistic malpractice. Period. End of story.

This sexism nonsense is a misdirect by the very same malpracticioning journlists who are like cockroaches - they prefer to live in the shadows.

They don't want the light shined in their direction. So they cried rape. Quick! Everybody look over there!

Turn your clock back to the very, very beginning of gamergate. Watch how the lights got flicked on, and watch how the cockroaches scattered.

The very beginning of gamergate?

A bitter ex wrote a blog post claiming zoe quinn slept with journalists in return for favourable reviews. Reviews that never happened. A misogynist hate mob formed and began harassing every female developer they could find. Their biggest supporters are a far-right journalist, a neo-nazi and TotalBiscuit, a man who was banned from a site as shit as SomethingAwful because his posts were so bad.

As if it weren't obvious enough that it was never about ethics, they have so far not cared about the shadow of mordor controversy and are considering appointing fucking IGN as their choice of what a well run games review site is.

It would be laughable if not for how damaging this mob of pathetic low lifes has been to the games industry so far.

[erendorn]

Exactly! I am doubting your words. Very sure I'm not the only one here. So I'm asking for some proof, but you refuse to give that. What possible conclusion is there then, other than things are *not* as trivial as you make them to be.

Umm, yeah. I could say something more, but I'll leave it at that.

On the contrary, I've always found that gens was quite knowledgeable, both on systemd and on its alternatives (and more so than most people in this forum).

The issue with him is that he is a bit dishonnest above all the "but systemd actually does it/does it better" thing.
Often his arguments are a bit like that:
"I can receive and read mails using shell scripts, so dedicated email software is useless"
which has no real merit (this is based on taste). So I simply don't argue anymore.

[Gusar]

The issue with him is that he is a bit dishonnest above all the "but systemd actually does it/does it better" thing.

Precisely this. I don't doubt gens actually knows stuff, it's his trivialization of things that's the issue. That's what I doubt, that the problems systemd solves can be trivially solved otherwise. That's what I want him to show us, all this supposed trivial things integrated into a whole product, a prototype distro. A one- or few-liner shell script here and there doesn't cut it, I want to see how the whole thing works together as a product one can actually run on a machine, while matching the feature-set of a machine running systemd.

[tuxd3v]

only haters...

Well,

I show my position on systemd, and a lot of guys tried to create some confrontation...in a way that systemd workers have already experienced...

So they say that are the non systemd people that are bullying the systemd guys...well I experienced the contrary...

Only to say that systemd was created with the idea of administration, but by developers....
systemd should be created with the idea of been used by SysAdmins...

Because are the SysAdmins that will use the system in the servers(all day), we know better than anyone what make more sense and what is better to administrate something, and the changes that we are used to make in deamons, etc...

Systemd was created by developers with developers in mind...that is the big fail of it!!!

We like Run levels a lot!!What you find in systemD is an abomination!!Seems that,... was a kid that have the idea of that s**T!

Freedom, gives you the capacity to choose, and in Debian we will not choose, we will be forced to use systemd, which we don't want too!

But everyone that like systemd can use it, I only said that in my cluster systemd won't come in!!
Yes I used to be a Debian lover, and I know that Debian has some flaws, but it is very good, the best linux distro out there for servers , and embeddable systems ...

but if you don't get what is most practical and powerful, you will change to another thing...

And after all the work you will have, to adapt yourself to another thing,... you will not comeback!!

The unique real statment that I have done was...

Qoes Debian will give us the freedom to chose, and if we choose Sysvinit, it work nice with all packages?
A:if yes I will mantain Debian, if not, I will be very sad, but I will have to change to something else, that give some importance to unix like Filosify...

Any one have the freedom to chose...please don't bully me again

regards

[Luke_Wolf]

*snip*

[gens]

Often his arguments are a bit like that:
"I can receive and read mails using shell scripts, so dedicated email software is useless"
which has no real merit (this is based on taste). So I simply don't argue anymore.

there must be a balance
i won't use a shell script to get mail (even though there are console mail clients that can be hooked to execute a popup on the desktop)
i won't play mp3 by using a mp3 decoder and piping it to a raw sound player
and so on

the idea behind the systemd init (as in, only the init) is good
a dependency resolving process starter plus process tracking is a good idea
problem is that it should have nothing to do with everything else systemd does
(and the way it resolves dependencies, but that's another topic)

Lennart said that the solaris SMF was the inspiration for hes init but solaris's SMF does only those 2 things and nothing else

SMF is a good piece of software, from what i know of it
only thing i know is not good, and that solaris admins also don't like, is that it's configuration files are in XML (but there are tools made just to edit them)


in short, no
i'm not a old UNIX fart, in fact i'm a bit on the young side of life
i just like good design and hate the spreading of complete bullshit amongst those that still are learning these things
i like knowledge and learning and dislike buzzwords and such bollocks

and i never used BSD or solaris or anything like that
(just tried BSD once, its ok)

[niner]

Because we are the SysAdmins that will use the system in the servers(all day), we know better than anyone what make more sense and what is better to administrate something, and the changes that we are used to make in deamons, etc...

How dare you pretend that you are the spokes person for system administrators?
I am a system administrator and I agree with nothing you said, at all.

[gens]

...

to add
while process tracking is good since it can tell when a process failed,
it still stands that just that is not good enough for servers as the server process can hang
(and then there is nitpicking in that it is bad for security to restart an internet facing process that died)