Debian Developer Resigns From The Systemd Maintainership Team

[gens]

Sysvinit can restart a getty - because it doesn't detach.

It doesn't support this with shell based "sysv init scripts".

sysvinit's init can start things...
and that is the context of what i was describing, aka a proper server that only runs as a server (or load balancer)

"Also monitoring != /etc/init.d/blah statis "

no, its how it is described in what i linked
read it

PS http://bewareofgeek.livejournal.com/2945.html

[monraaf]

Well, read what "monit" is that I mentioned... It can also check various protocols like http.

Sysvinit can start, but not restart (Except for gettys, that is).

This includes deadlocked services. Sysvinit scripts are not very robust. They'll send a "please shut down" to your daemon, them try to start another copy, without realizing the service didn't shut down and is still blocking the port. Then the restart fails, and they don't care either...

Then the admin has to log in manually and pkill -9 the daemon, because neither the init script nor monit worked. or realized it didn't work...
Doesn't work at scale. You want something that can reliably restart and stop services, not only "fire and forget" like sysvinit scripts. You probably just havn't realized this yet... how many service failures do you have to handle?

[dungeon]

This community is abomination. People like you are here. Don't you find it funny when the most technical people nearly all prefer systemd (people with proper programming experience), and the un-technical (system administrators with little programming experience) people don't? I've found a pattern. Then, you have the trolls and the bandwagoners who are against systemd either because it's funny or because they just have no idea what it's about, because if you knew anything about it you'd realize it's a LOT better than any other solution. But that's why I dipped from the Linux community, because people like you are a cancer that fills this community to the brim. Go ahead, enjoy your little sysvinit, I won't be allocating my company's time to contributing to anything to do with it or anything to do with anything GNU or Linux.

Why do you think that i am a troll i am not against it because of quality or something Some maintainers seems to continuously resigning from Debian from indirect reasons systemd causes, that is alarming to me - that is what i am worry about as Debian user .

I may like some init system better, but this systemd thingy does made so much hate that i don't at all care about it, just similar to this dev who resigns - Debian needs people , i am glad too call and i will call SystemD shitty if this hate that that software produces does not stop .

Well, you seems missunderstood me really

[Drago]

SystemD, is good for desktop's(not my machines , thanks)...
Sisvinit is not perfect , but it is good for servers...you can adapt things and control them without go in code, or binary...

What is this crap?
Go tell that to some cloud/orchestration softwares for massive server deployments like CoreOS, Kubernetes, Red Hat Atomic...
They are using specifially systemd, and benefit from it.

[gens]

Well, read what "monit" is that I mentioned... It can also check various protocols like http.

Sysvinit can start, but not restart (Except for gettys, that is).

This includes deadlocked services. Sysvinit scripts are not very robust. They'll send a "please shut down" to your daemon, them try to start another copy, without realizing the service didn't shut down and is still blocking the port. Then the restart fails, and they don't care either...

Then the admin has to log in manually and pkill -9 the daemon, because neither the init script nor monit worked. or realized it didn't work...
Doesn't work at scale. You want something that can reliably restart and stop services, not only "fire and forget" like sysvinit scripts. You probably just havn't realized this yet... how many service failures do you have to handle?

...you can write pkill -9 in the script
sysvinit's init can start and respawn anything you tell it to in inittab (man inittab)

if the process hangs, as you described, then systemd/monit would report it as running

here, il write you a script to do it properly based on that what i linked

!#/bin/bash

while [ `ssh link 'wget --spider -S "http://www.website.nyc" 2>&1' | awk '/HTTP\// {print $2}'` == 200 ]
    sleep 5min
done

call_the_sysadmin_tell_him_the server_aint_up_function

it's a bit crude, but i believe you know how to write better scripts so its np

that will tell you when the server hangs so you don't have to find it out from your customers

[Marc Driftmeyer]

C code makes system less secure/stable/transparent. It is better to replace C code with anything else.

What a load of crap. If you said, ``Poor programming idioms, a lack of bounds checking code in policies and over all poor formal education in Computer Science makes using C a cocktail for a world of hurt. Not because of the language, but because the language assumes you know what the hell you're doing, and doesn't hold your hand and warn you when you go off a cliff.''

Then again, anyone not writing in C99/C11 and still writing in C89 is asking for a bag of hurt.

On the other hand, C++ is nothing but a great example of overly engineering ideas that have spent 30 years polluting the world of OOA/OOD.

[Baconmon]

Systemd is golden..

If systemd sucked so much, then why is it that all of the distrobutions are tending to move to it?..

I think much of the hate towards it is the perception that it is taking over every thing like a giant dictator, and some people don't like that perception.. So they lash out against it..

But if you actually analyze every thing systemd is changing or implementing PIECE BY PIECE, it is basically improving every thing it touches.. Init scripts are like a mouse-trap way of doing things, and really needs to be updated in this era..

Systemd is like king midas going around town touching every thing and turning every thing to gold piece by piece.. Some people might say "OMG, he is changing every thing!", but when you look at HOW he has changed every thing, you realize every thing is gold now..

Same with systemd.. Yeah it is changing lots of parts and getting in to every thing......but when you look at HOW it has changed each piece, you see that it generally improves it compared to what it previously was..

[slacka]

Systemd is like king midas going around town touching every thing and turning every thing to gold piece by piece.. Some people might say "OMG, he is changing every thing!", but when you look at HOW he has changed every thing, you realize every thing is gold now..

Great, so when I tried to drive to work, I sat down on my uncomfortable gold seats, only to find out my gold car froze on startup. Then I found out I couldn't look under my golden hood to see why is wasn't starting. Fortunately my FreeBSD car still runs just fine. True story about my first systemd experience.

In all seriousness, I'm disgusted that trolls drove the maintainer away. It reflects poorly on our community and no one should be celebrating over it. On the other hand, while I agree SysV needs to be replaced, I'm not pleased with how the systemd team has dealt with bugs and valid technical criticisms. My only hope is that some leaner fork like uselessd will become the default init system in the future.

[Delgarde]

My only hope is that some leaner fork like uselessd will become the default init system in the future.

Have you actually taken a close look at uselessd? Seriously, that is *not* going to happen, given that a) the project consists of a single developer, and b) his plans are to rip out all the features that make systemd useful for the people who use it. I've some respect for that developer for actually doing something instead of just complaining, but I don't think his project is going to achieve anything.

[jimbohale]

Great, so when I tried to drive to work, I sat down on my uncomfortable gold seats, only to find out my gold car froze on startup. Then I found out I couldn't look under my golden hood to see why is wasn't starting. Fortunately my FreeBSD car still runs just fine. True story about my first systemd experience.

In all seriousness, I'm disgusted that trolls drove the maintainer away. It reflects poorly on our community and no one should be celebrating over it. On the other hand, while I agree SysV needs to be replaced, I'm not pleased with how the systemd team has dealt with bugs and valid technical criticisms. My only hope is that some leaner fork like uselessd will become the default init system in the future.

HOW the fuck is systemd is any way responsible for freezing on startup? That doesn't even make sense. The only way that would happen is if a dependency of X11 failed and it failed to launch that, but that would happen in sysvinit ANYWAY, so what's your point? systemd is modern, easy, and overall better in every way than sysvinit. There is no reason whatsoever that your system startup should be done via shell script. systemd is not even a heavy project, it is an umbrella project for pid 0 and some daemons (i.e. dhcp and some others). pid 0 and those daemons are not particularly intertwined, and you can run systemd without those daemons just fine.

I will continue to enjoy launchd on my Mac OS X machine, one of the few init systems (along with systemd) that actually make sense while the systemd haters miss out on something they clearly know nothing about.