Originally posted by schmidtbag
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Linux Kernel Developers Fed Up With Ridiculous Bugs In Systemd
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All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.
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Originally posted by balouba View Postif you don't like /proc, fuck you. thats how unix works and its a lot better than windows system calls AND osx, solaris, openbsd system calls for this.
if you don't like Linus's way of handling things, fuck you. It works way better than anything else. If Linus were to die tomorrow, we'd have a serious problem. People don't filter bullshit enough.
And in case you wonder, bullshit-filtering is a very good use of swear words.
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Originally posted by Ericg View PostAlmost, if not EVERY, non systemd-core component of systemd can be turned off at compile time with a --disable-$XYZ flag except MAYBE the journal. I think a barebones systemd is like 2mb's. Thats always why all of us who support systemd have wanted to strangle everyone who shouts "Systemd is bloated! Systemd isn't modular!" because the reality is you can customize and cut down systemd to WHATEVER you need it to be. Want everything? Bam. Done. Got an embedded system that you just want systemd, journal and networkd? Bam. done.
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Originally posted by ryao View PostYou might want to rethink when you consider the fact that I am at least willing to tolerate such things in the tree.
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Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View PostEven though I don't mess with proc myself I gotta agree that having to write string parsers just suck, setting up parsing is one of the most asininely annoying tasks you can make a programmer do. That said if you format the output in JSON or XML then you retain the benefits of text based formats, while making the lives of programmers much much easier, and also allowing you to have a bunch of extra cool features.
But yea, writing those is annoying. I usually end up with some pretty lame things, like (in D) if (args.canFind("-h")) writeln("Usage: -h Display this help string"); which means that having "-h" anywhere in the argument line would cause it to display a message and quit (and I usually can't be bothered to come up with more sophisticated methods for simple programs).
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Ts?o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd
A trackback for this discussion, and a must read for those who care anything about Linux. These kernel bug discussions are just scratching the surface. If nerds don't wake up to the world around them, the larger influences that the likes of Sievers and Poettering represent, and how the Linux community is being gamed by big government and big business, you're going to lose your 'free and open' toys - in fact you already have.
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Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View PostEven though I don't mess with proc myself I gotta agree that having to write string parsers just suck, setting up parsing is one of the most asininely annoying tasks you can make a programmer do. That said if you format the output in JSON or XML then you retain the benefits of text based formats, while making the lives of programmers much much easier, and also allowing you to have a bunch of extra cool features.
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Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View PostEven though I don't mess with proc myself I gotta agree that having to write string parsers just suck, setting up parsing is one of the most asininely annoying tasks you can make a programmer do. That said if you format the output in JSON or XML then you retain the benefits of text based formats, while making the lives of programmers much much easier, and also allowing you to have a bunch of extra cool features.
echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
It's simple, it works across languages, and is easy to do from an interactive shell. I don't want to have to write structured binary data, or well formed XML or JSON, in order to change a simple kernel setting.
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Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostI wouldn't call that toleration. It is a basic requirement. In any open source community, no individual contributor should be allowed to dictate what others maintain. This is especially true of integration projects where there are no defaults.
Thankfully, the situation has changed to the better lately. systemd has been gaining support, it's been added to the installation guide and a convenience option for it added into gentoo-sources, people on IRC have started to be helpful even about systemd-related issues etc. Only when directly talking about systemd vs OpenRC do you get to hear them bashing systemd now.
Things like that do matter to me, since I'm a Gentoo contributor myself. I maintain the Snapper package in Gentoo Sunrise. It's a Btrfs snapshotting tool, and it just so happens that due to sufficient interest (including mine) Snapper just recently received better systemd integration. So if the attitudes were to switch back to what they were again, I would honestly consider moving to contributing to one of the Gentoo forks, instead...
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