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Very Very ANGRY Torvalds !!

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  • Very Very ANGRY Torvalds !!

    Very Very ANGRY Linus Torvalds !!

    In what can be termed as one of the most heated arguments in the tech world, an Intel Linux developer Sarah Sharp has requested Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, to put an end to verbal abusing on mailing list and adopt professional behavior.

  • #2
    In that thread he does not display any anger.
    The story has hit slashdot too:
    darthcamaro writes "The Linux Kernel Development Mailing List can be a hostile place for anyone. Now Intel developer Sarah Sharp is taking a stand and she wants the LKML to become a more civil place. Quoting her first message: 'Seriously, guys? Is this what we need in order to get improve -stable? ...


    • #3
      To make things shorter:

      Originally posted by Torvalds
      “Mauro, SHUT THE F**K UP!

      It's a bug alright - in the kernel. How long have you been a maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel maintenance?

      If a change results in user programs breaking, it's a bug in the kernel. We never EVER blame the user programs. How hard can this be to understand?

      To make matters worse, commit f0ed2ce840b3 is clearly total and utter CRAP even if it didn't break applications. ENOENT is not a valid error return from an ioctl. Never has been, never will be. ENOENT means "No such file and directory", and is for path operations. ioctl's are done on files that have already been opened, there's no way in hell that ENOENT would ever be valid.

      So, on a first glance, this doesn't sound like a regression, but, instead, it looks tha pulseaudio/tumbleweed has some serious bugs and/or regressions.

      Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously.

      I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug. And you've shown yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly and immediately myself.


      Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email was so _horribly_ wrong, and the patch that broke things was so obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret").

      The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space, and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just shameful. It's not how we work.

      Fix your f*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken. And fix your approach to kernel programming.

      Originally posted by Intel
      “Seriously, guys? Is this what we need in order to get improve -stable? Linus Torvalds is advocating for physical intimidation and violence. Ingo Molnar and Linus are advocating for verbal abuse.

      Not *f***ing* cool. Violence, whether it be physical intimidation, verbal threats or verbal abuse is not acceptable. Keep it professional on the mailing lists.

      Let's discuss this at Kernel Summit where we can at least yell at each other in person. Yeah, just try yelling at me about this. I'll roar right back, louder, for all the people who lose their voice when they get yelled at by top maintainers. I won't be the nice girl anymore.”
      Originally posted by Torvalds response
      "Because if you want me to 'act professional', I can tell you that I'm not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearing a bathrobe. The same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm *also* not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what 'acting professionally' results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.'
      I think Torvalds is completely correct. Its okay to be angered and its okay to tell about it without boundaries. With boundaries, it does result in internal illnesses, physical and psychical, it does result in double standards, "fake politeness" and in the end - dead backstabbing development.
      The problem is - understanding this and expressing naturally is one part, being able to understand critique and find its source is another part. It requires qualified matured person like Torvalds to understand his response and not get pissed off. This is why, for "normal" (as in "sheep" from "herd" who can't think for themself, but copy-paste behavior around) people, "professional politeness" was born. But in the end, it does more damage to individuals and its completely different from hacker culture, hackers being people who read taoism etc, not modern copy-paste western pseudo-psychology books.


      • #4
        I find his rants quite amusing, though I'm happy not to be on the receiving end :P
        I have absolutely no proof of this, when it comes to Linus, but unfiltered people tends to not hold grudges, and are mostly pleasant beings, if you learn from what they tell you. Trolls and elitists are another story entirely though.


        • #5
          Torvalds, dishing out STFUs since 1991. And it's a lot of fun too - if you're not on the receiving end :-)


          • #6
            I don't see anything wrong going on. Kernel dev made a huge sloppy mistake, Mr. Torvalds straightened them out.


            Mr. Torvalds:

            I'm sitting in my home office wearing a bathrobe.
            Like a boss.


            • #7
              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
              Torvalds, dishing out STFUs since 1991. And it's a lot of fun too - if you're not on the receiving end :-)
              Well said and I would NEVER want to piss the big man off but rather buy him a beer :^)