Miguel de Icaza Leaves Linux For Apple OS X

[a user]

The desktop was not fragmented before he himself started the GNOME project as an alternative to KDE...

luckily. KDE was buggier, more instable and memory leaking all over the place than windows ever was. it took a lot of years till kde become somewhat usable and it is still not in a good shape.

i remember back on kde 2 and 3 when we called it the windows of the linux world. couldn't work an hour without seeing kde crashing again.


edit: btw. when was the point in time when one of the biggest strenght of linux started to be called a weakness and got this totally wrong name "fragmentation"? was it at the same time when all people suddently forgot WHAT exactly was and is it what is holding linux back on conquering the masses?... no, it never was and neither is that what some are calling falsely "fragmentation".

[manmath]

As I see, everyone commenting in this thread is (partially) right. All the principles on which Linux and various distros built are good. Freedom and choice is great! Having said that...

#1 The growing apathy is not due to choices - but bad choices, half-implemented, half-baked.
#1 The growing apathy is not ue to how everything is put together - but some insane defaults, incoherence integration.

The situation is improving, but still not there. Please don't mind, I somewhat agree with Icaza on few points. Let's not treat this great effort Linux+GNU+other free byes as a cult, let's have some tool/appliance like approach.

[Detructor]

It means this crap will die as it deserves. It's available since years on Linux and what mono fanboys have achieved are only few bloated, buggy and crappy apps. It's just ridiculous.

Oh, I see and you have so much knowledge because you are a software developer with years of experience? Yeah, didn't thought so, too.

And all those proofs you delivered, very nice. Meanwhile I'll start banshee and hear some music which means I literally can't hear you over the sound of how awesome mono is.

[Detructor]

Python

If you want better performance you can always write a module in with Cython, Boost.Python, etc.

Windows programs written in C# almost always rely on WPF / Windows Forms, so it's not really cross platform in the sense that Java is. You can't compile those programs with Mono.

WindowsForms was ported to mono so a windowsforms app runs on mono just fine.

Yes, python is a nice language but I've yet to find a good IDE for it.

[mahalin]

The Linux Desktop fails because there is no profitable service model for non-enterprise users.

Selling open-source software by itself is redundant, obviously. Profit can only be made on something that is scarce*. OSS is considered non-scarce. This is another topic for another thread, but it is thought that intellectual property, copyrights, and patents introduce artifical scarcity* by limiting distribution, modification and reproduction (which IMHO is inefficient and detrimental).

Red Hat's model thrives because they sell a service that satisfies an almost absolute need that the product naturally incurs on its users, and it incurs this not because Red Hat cripples the product, but because it is the natural consequence of using the product (or you could say the natural consequence of OSS).

I'm not familiar with that sector so I can't comment much further. What makes them successful? If Red Hat is preferred over other alternatives, then despite the limitations of OSS, it still has a net advantage over other products/services. What is this advantage? Has Red Hat has found a way to leverage the benefits of FOSS in its favor? I know they protect their clients against patent trolls. Feel free to chime in.

*Definitions, from Wiki:

Goods (and services) that are scarce are called economic goods (or simply goods if their scarcity is presumed). Other goods are called free goods if they are desired but in such abundance that they are not scarce, such as air and seawater.

Physical goods are likely to remain inherently scarce by definition. Also some non-physical goods are likely to remain scarce by design, examples include positional goods such as awards generated by honor systems, fame, and membership of elite social groups. These things are said to derive all or most of their value from their scarcity.

Artificial scarcity describes the scarcity of items even though the technology and production capacity exists to create an abundance.

[ciplogic]

Python

If you want better performance you can always write a module in with Cython, Boost.Python, etc.

Windows programs written in C# almost always rely on WPF / Windows Forms, so it's not really cross platform in the sense that Java is. You can't compile those programs with Mono.

I'm glad you pointed that Python is more portable than C# but Boost.Python!? I mean: C++ is in real life as less portable as C# is, but by default C# offers more portable in the package: it can parse Xml, it can do reflection, web downloading or connect to a database. I mean basically what Python can do out of the box, isn't it so? Also, if you target Mono for Windows, and you make sure that you application really works on it, it will work with minimal changes most of the time to Linux. Pinta codebase shows this.

One last inaccuracy: Windows Forms works on Mono fairly well. I mean the basic controls, not the animations that have flickering. So if you make a WinForms app that connects to a database it may work from scratch. There is one application that proves this: http://www.plasticscm.com/

At last: Cython is portable that you don't need any platform dependent code? The tutorial asks to you to precompile your code upfront: http://docs.cython.org/src/userguide/tutorial.html The same is about Boost.Python, isn't it so? The Jars and MSIL assemblies don't require this either. If you need though a platform dependent code, for example to pick your lib.so from disk, this can be done by customizing a .xml that is read at runtime. This is done automatically by most libraries, so there is no issue in real life.

[Luke_Wolf]

Python

If you want better performance you can always write a module in with Cython, Boost.Python, etc.

Windows programs written in C# almost always rely on WPF / Windows Forms, so it's not really cross platform in the sense that Java is. You can't compile those programs with Mono.

I just feel the need to point out here that saying that people using WPF makes C# not cross platform is like saying most people using C++ always rely upon Win32 so it's not really cross platform... All it means is Miguel and co really need to get their act together and write a mono implementation of WPF and you do have other things to write in including GTK# and Qyoto, as well as the upcoming Xwt and there at least was an implementation of WxWidgets, but just because something that is commonly used isn't cross platform doesn't make the language not cross platform.

[Togga]

Oh, I see and you have so much knowledge because you are a software developer with years of experience? Yeah, didn't thought so, too.

And all those proofs you delivered, very nice. Meanwhile I'll start banshee and hear some music which means I literally can't hear you over the sound of how awesome mono is.

Wow. Is banshee still the poster-app for C# in Linux. No wonder this bloated peice-of-shit-system will die... Anyway, everyone nowadays uses either iTunes or Spotify.

[Togga]

Maybe Miguel have never been interested in technology...

Maybe he just wants to stay near and support the biggest IT-bully of the year in hope to be able to bullying someone himself.

[Guest]

Oh, I see and you have so much knowledge because you are a software developer with years of experience? Yeah, didn't thought so, too.

And all those proofs you delivered, very nice. Meanwhile I'll start banshee and hear some music which means I literally can't hear you over the sound of how awesome mono is.

Oh, and I don't have to be a developer to judge mono crap. It's enough to try mono applications. You hear sound in banshee till it crashes, because it's huge, bloated and unstable mess. The same about other mono shit that's available on Linux. There are dozens of Qt/C++, C, Python applications available on Linux while there are only few mono applications. What's worse, those few applications are utter crap. What proofs do you want to confirm there are just a few mono apps on Linux? Everything's ok with you? You'll also hear sound in any other application, so does it mean everything is awesome? What a dumb. Like I pointed in another thread mono is anti-Linux and it's m$ crap.