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  • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
    I think that every time that comparisons are made to US dollar, the situation is distorted..

    Russia could have a very strong coin, but they don't want, because otherwise they will be uncompetitive in worlds markets..its a balance..if you have a strong coin you have trouble competing worldwide, and if you have a weak coin, you wont be able to do imports of goods from countries with stronger coin.
    So they are happy with the current situation..

    The cost of living, utilities, services,healthcare is very low in Russia, specially outside of St Petersburg, or outside Moscow..
    This is literally why I provided both raw incomes, PPP-adjusted incomes, converted-to-US dollar incomes, and post-tax incomes.

    You can make whatever comparison you like, Russia's general "how much food / rent can I afford on a paycheck" is extremely low compared to the west.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Anux View Post

      How do you factor in, that an American can decide if he pays for insurances while Russian can't? They even have things like state owned TV, while an american could easily not pay for any TV. Simply put the poor Russian has a full service and can use it's money on less important stuff
      This is called "median disposable income" and it imputes as income the cost of government-provided services like healthcare. You can see Wikipedia's list here, but-- spoiler-- Russia's is ~35% of the US, and ~55% of the UK.

      US healthcare and TV for instance are not as significant as you think-- we have medicare, and average healthcare costs in the US are somewhere around $11k (depending on a few factors). That's not nearly enough to bridge the gap between US incomes and Russian incomes.

      Once again-- please provide your own figures instead of naysaying the ones I've provided. At some point it gets obnoxious and turns into sealioning.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Anux View Post
        And Vacation yes, I meant more like visiting USA or Germany, Norway, Switzerland etc, where even the hotel would be more than they can save in 3 years of hard work. And the more rich city people of Russia probably can make bigger vacations every year but not the lower 50%, whereas in western countrys the part of "poor" population would be much less, maybe 15%.
        Russians do visit USA,Germany,Norway,Switzerland,England, etc..like I said, they travel a lot.

        We need to separate the reality from the movies in the cinema(pure propaganda), they depict always, the Russians as bad guys, with erroneous behaviour,and very poor, and then the people think the Russians are not developed and they are stupid..its propaganda.
        70% of the Russian population has at least a University degree.I agree that those 20-30% maybe couldn´t afford to travel outside Russia, but the rest can do it, and they do it.
        In EU a lot of people can´t afford to travel to other countries inside EU neither..its the same thing..
        Russia has a minimum wage of around 600euros, and its about the same thing as my country in EU, with a difference, here everything is expensive.

        They have always a problem..the lack of human resources to do less technical tasks... and so they have a lot of people from other countries in Asia, also Ukraine, that works in Russia.

        The Russian Elites. those travel around the world...always.
        However, Russian normal people, outside the country they usually spend around 1500 euros, in average in their Vacations, I saw a report, maybe in 2018 about this...
        And with 1500Euros you can´ t do nothing in expensive places, that´s why majority of them travel to Turkey, and other countries in Asia,South America, and in the recent past south of Europe...and I think they are smart in doing that..

        If we travel to Russia, specially Moscow and St. Petesburg, its a lot expensive, because you are a tourist..probably more expensive than the most expensive places in EU/UK, but this for Moscow and St. Petersburg, the other places are a lot cheaper..and we can say pretty much the same for any expensive city in other regions of the globe too..

        Culturally they have outstanding places, you just need to look for St. Petersburg, its a marvel,...but that costs a lot of money for tourists(and no beach..).
        I did a research in 2017, and I understood that I couldn´t visit all important places in Saint Petesburg in a month of vacations..

        I do have however the desire to visit Russia, St Petersburg, and Crimea..
        I already did some research about St. Petersburg, I lack the same about Crimea..specially the water temperature/beach quality and levels of silence, with only the waves in the background..
        I already saw some places there in Crimea, and the beach was very crowded..I don´t like that, but Businessmans from Russia and other Places are creating wonderful places there...so maybe in those places you can have quality of rest..

        Originally posted by Anux View Post
        Currently im earning a good bit less than the german average (if those numbers are correct) but it is more than enough money to buy me whatever I want and finance a second person who doesn't work and that's in one of the most expensive citys here.
        It all depend on the cost of living...if the cost of living is very high, then we need to earn a lot of money...but it doesn´t matter because we will loose it, due to the cost of living..
        Russians, in my opinion earn less money than we do, a IT guy in Russia makes less money than we do(But don´ t think they don´t have a good salary...), but they have very low costs of living, and so they end up with more money that we do..so they have wonderful lives there.

        I lived in Germany in the 2000s, cost of living was high, everything was very expensive, but the Electronics stuff was a lot cheaper than in my country...yeah I got puzzled at the time..​
        In the end what matters is the cost of living, and if what you earn is enough to give you a comfortable life.
        Originally posted by Anux View Post
        People just get used to the higher living standards quickly and think they need to replace their 1000€ iPhone every 2 years, a new TV every 5 years as well as a new car, expensive vacation, a million € home ....
        I don't have all of this and still own much to much stuff I don't really use. In my student years I lived from 400€ a month.
        I agree, with you 100%, we don´ t really need all that stuff.
        We need the amount of things that permit us to live a comfortable life.
        The rest is just consumerism, and toxic waste for the planet.

        I only change the phone when it stops working, or when I see that it doesn´ t do already what it was planned to do..
        I change my computer when it is already inadequate for the job.
        Television...I change when it fails.
        Car I change, after 10 years or more.If the car continues to do its normal job..I wont change it...
        The house is the minimal that permits me to have a comfortable life..

        But I do like Vacations...like crazy, ho yeah, preferably with warm waters, complete paradises. In complete different cultures than mine...ho yeah!!!

        Comment


        • Only people from the US go on vacation. The rest of us go on holidays

          Except Michael;, apparently.
          Hi

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ll1025 View Post
            This is called "median disposable income" and it imputes as income the cost of government-provided services like healthcare. You can see Wikipedia's list here, but-- spoiler-- Russia's is ~35% of the US, and ~55% of the UK.
            I just said, that it's hard to compare by numbers no one there earns exactly what is the average or median and if we talk about the lower part (those considered poor) there is a big difference in the standard of living (pro Russia).

            US healthcare and TV for instance are not as significant as you think-- we have medicare, and average healthcare costs in the US are somewhere around $11k (depending on a few factors).
            It's not only TV and health care. Pension, free education, child care and you can't easily become homeless. Being homeless in the US means you don't have 11k to spend on any of this.

            Once again-- please provide your own figures instead of naysaying the ones I've provided. At some point it gets obnoxious and turns into sealioning.
            Im not sure what's your problem, just as a reminder what I initially said:
            But I think a Russian would be considered poor in most western countrys


            Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
            Russians do visit USA,Germany,Norway,Switzerland,England, etc..like I said, they travel a lot.
            And I didn't say otherwise:
            I meant more like visiting USA or Germany, Norway, Switzerland etc, where even the hotel would be more than they can save in 3 years of hard work. And the more rich city people of Russia probably can make bigger vacations every year but not the lower 50%
            70% of the Russian population has at least a University degree.
            That sounds a bit too much or their university education is worth nothing. Wikipedia also says over 50%, hard to judge if you haven't visited a university there.

            In EU a lot of people can´t afford to travel to other countries inside EU neither..its the same thing.
            Yes but I think you have the wrong feelings for the percentage of people being that poor here and in Russia

            I agree, with you 100%, we don´ t really need all that stuff.
            We need the amount of things that permit us to live a comfortable life.
            The rest is just consumerism, and toxic waste for the planet.
            We're totally on the same line here.​

            Comment


            • Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
              Only people from the US go on vacation. The rest of us go on holidays
              As a non British person, for me its the same thing...vacations or holidays

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Anux View Post
                That sounds a bit too much or their university education is worth nothing. Wikipedia also says over 50%, hard to judge if you haven't visited a university there.
                Russians are very educated,
                They inherited the need to educate themselves from Soviet Union..some have several degrees, they like to do it.Its in their DNA.

                I also never went to a Russian University, but their degrees are recognized worldwide.
                Judging by the fact that they build helicopters,Air plains, have a fantastic aerospace industry,have the most developed nuclear energy technology, good missiles, hypersonics, submarines,war ships,etc,.. I would say that their education is top notch..

                Originally posted by Anux View Post
                Yes but I think you have the wrong feelings for the percentage of people being that poor here and in Russia
                Maybe, but I know many people here that can´t do vacations, or go to less expensive places, like their parents house..
                I think a lot of Russians do the same..

                What matters the most is the cost of living, how you manage to educate your children's, etc, in this regard I think Russian people is ahead of us.
                Here everything is very expensive, everything.Unless you earn a lot of money, you live just in survival mode..

                And what is interesting is that Russian minimal wages are about 600euros, the same or close, to what my country has as minimal wages..and no one here can survive with that..
                I am not saying that they earn more money then us, because I think that´s´ not the case, but what they earn permit them to have comfortable lives, while we struggle to have comfortable lives here..at least a part of our population..

                Comment


                • The University systems in a sovereign state generally poach the highly intelligent, leaving the rest who want a 'degree, to learn not much more than technical skills in humdrum roles.

                  They're a self-fulfilling prophecy, and as the Yanks (US) like to say, 'to big to fail'. They'll likely never lose their gravitas, prestige, whatever.
                  Hi

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