NVIDIA Reportedly Close To Admitting Defeat In Arm Acquisition

[coder]

ability to scale all the way down to small boards that cost a couple of dollars to scale up to large servers that can be the backbone of data centers

Intel actually used to have that, with Quark and Edison.

However, not unlike your ARM pitch there, I think Intel overestimated the value of having a single ISA, everywhere.

What's more important is to have the right ISA for the job. And that means GPUs aren't about to start using ARM cores, for instance. Heck, even ARM gets that:

https://developer.arm.com/architectu...ture/m-profile

[coder]

People on this forum who keep fantasizing about x86 being replaced by ARM or RISC do not think of the full implication. The result will be like Sony's use of BSD. We will have a bunch of processors enhanced by some similar proprietary tech.

Well, a difference is that you could take a RISC-V soft core, load it on a FPGA, and then run Linux on that. It won't perform great, but you could do it and be rid of any extensions that deprive you of control. That's the allure of a free, open, and relatively simple ISA.

[coder]

ARM (like Linux) offers options, Intel and AMD (like Microsoft) do not offer customisation.
Sure it's not Ideal but it's the best we got.

Intel and AMD do indeed offer customization, if you've got enough money.

As for ARM, they're way more restrictive than RISC-V. They basically forbid any nonstandard ISA extensions, whereas RISC-V is practically carte blanch.

[coder]

Either way, us plebs are left out in the cold, dusting off scraps from the landfill.

Sure it's not ideal but... well it is utter shite to be honest. People need to start refusing to buy from crooked vendors. Yes, this means keeping with old hardware until less crooked vendors actually appear.

If you have to buy guns or drugs from a criminal, it doesn't matter which criminal you choose, you are still funding a criminal and are partly at fault when the whole ecosystem remains toxic.

You won't get anywhere by blaming the plebs. Us plebs gotta eat, you know?

If you want to enshrine a degree of openness in computing hardware, that will take government action. The costs involved preclude something like what Linux achieved in the software realm.

[coder]

1st. Nvidia is almost monopoly already on GPU market and going even more competitive would mean total monopoly and start of anti-trust laws against them.

That's not true. What triggers lawsuits is abuse of monopoly power. There's not actually any US law against becoming a monopoly through market success. However, you're sort of right that when you pass a certain degree of market dominance, then there are more limits on how you can behave.

According to steam survey they already sell 10x more Ampere cards then RDNA2. Intel might bring more competition, but simply Nvidia is too big on dedicated GPU market to continue growing on desktop/laptop/server space.

That's why they've been making a push for self-driving & robotics SoCs, as well as datacenter systems.

2nd. ARM is sort of easy piece of cake to start eating diffrent market. But not necesserly for sake of wrong of consumers - truth to be told ARM's own designs are quite weak and lacking comparing to best designs of Qualcomm, Apple and even Samsung.

Eh, not really. ARM's own cores have beat everyone except Apple. And Nuvia (now part of Qualcomm) would have us believe their cores are also better, but we don't know. Even Nvidia, after designing 2-3 generations of their own, has opted to use ARM's cores in their latest SoCs!

ARM doesn't design anything like Tensor cores/AI cores etc.

LOL. Of course they do!

https://developer.arm.com/ip-product...ng/arm-ethos-n

It's an outgrowth of their Project Trillium, described here:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12791...p-architecture

[linuxgeex]

I would prefer NVidia ending up controlling ARM rather than Samsung or Apple, which is what will happen after the IPO.

If ARM becomes an uncompetitive platform like x86 then it will find itself suffering and getting replaced by another license-able ISA/uArch IP stack. ie MIPS or RISC-V. That's the great thing about the open marketplace - when a supplier sucks enough, the market makes lateral moves away from them.

I think Intel saw that coming and that's why late 2021 they announced that they would open x86 licensing and Intel's fabs for custom IP products. Maybe x86 will suck less in the near future, and ARM's trajectory to becoming the dominant ISA on all platforms will fall short, and maybe then we will care less what happens with ARM regardless.

[elatllat]

Intel and AMD do indeed offer customization, if you've got enough money.

As for ARM, they're way more restrictive than RISC-V. They basically forbid any nonstandard ISA extensions, whereas RISC-V is practically carte blanch.

Like more money than Apple?

[kpedersen]

You won't get anywhere by blaming the plebs. Us plebs gotta eat, you know?

Well, yeah but do we all need to eat quite so much? I think for many of us just eating an old Pentium 4 or certainly a Core2Duo is more than enough. Some of it is an element of greed.

[coder]

Like more money than Apple?

No, just pocket change for someone like Microsoft or Sony. Even a Chinese company got a custom console APU from AMD:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13381...rid-fireflight

[coder]

I would prefer NVidia ending up controlling ARM rather than Samsung or Apple, which is what will happen after the IPO.

Why would they buy them post-IPO, after passing up every prior opportunity?

And why do you think regulators would allow that, when they didn't allow Nvidia to buy it?

another license-able ISA/uArch IP stack. ie MIPS or RISC-V.

MIPS and RISC-V are free, as is POWER.

That's the great thing about the open marketplace - when a supplier sucks enough, the market makes lateral moves away from them.

It's not quick or easy, which is why so many people cried foul at the prospect of ARM getting wielded by Nvidia. Embedded is one thing, but x86 sure does have some inertia in desktop & server computing. And ARM basically has a lock on mobile, for the next 3-5 years, at the very least.