The Sad State Of Web Browser Support Currently Within Debian

[Sonadow]

I did use Windows (I still do at work), but it did not work as well as Debian, Fedora or Arch Linux. My computers are not even supported by 11.

Copy-pasting a registry key, published by Microsoft themselves, to disable the compatibility check on install is apparently too difficult.

At this point, I would even choose Mac over desktop Linux.

BTW, my Windows 10 at work is unable to install updates for more than month. Don't know why (it does not tell anything else than 0x80070643). Well at least it wont automatically restart. What a joke of an OS.

Right, just because a handful of people have an issue with Windows Update out of the hundreds of millions who don't makes it a joke.

Desktop Linux is a bigger joke with necessary applications like web conferencing tools not even any close to achieving the predictability and reliability of their Windows versions, if they even exist for Linux in the first place. Zoom refuses to work on anything outside of Gnome where Wayland is concerned, screensharing via Pipewire is still broken to the point where I have scrolled to another page or slide on my computer yet my viewers are still seeing the old content i was presenting five minutes earlier (this never happens on macOS and Windows). Teams still expects to be run in an X session and remote control is broken out of the box to the point where the user must manually go into $HOME/.local/config/ and sed -i a very specific string in order for it to have a chance of working. Pulseaudio has a non-zero chance of randomly dying and restarting itself without anyone's knowledge in a web meeting, effectively killing the meeting since the output sinks and input sources are all screwed up when that happens but the web browser or the conferencing software does not know about it and still keeps using the old, non-existent sinks and sources with no option to refresh them outside of quitting the app or browser entirely,

Or Libreoffice randomly crashing when run with SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=Qt5 under a Plasma Wayland environment and having dog-slow performance even with SAL_FORCEGL=1 and SAL_FORCECL=1 enabled. It gets even more ridiculous when an Atom-powered Laptop on Windows 11 can run Microsoft Office and load and scroll a 30-page document filled with photographs, graphics and tables much faster than the same laptop on Linux with LibreOffice, where simply scrolling every few pages causes Libre to stall with a (Not Responding) status for at least half a minute

[LightBit]

Copy-pasting a registry key, published by Microsoft themselves, to disable the compatibility check on install is apparently too difficult.

Installing Windows 11 on a device that does not meet Windows 11 minimum system requirements is not recommended.

At this point, I would even choose Mac over desktop Linux.

Apple is too expensive and locked up.

Right, just because a handful of people have an issue with Windows Update out of the hundreds of millions who don't makes it a joke.

More like handful of people do not have issue with updates. Hundreds of millions just don't care.
There were many news about Windows 10 update causing trouble to users.
This is just my latest issue with core Windows functionality.

Desktop Linux is a bigger joke with necessary applications like web conferencing tools not even any close to achieving the predictability and reliability of their Windows versions, if they even exist for Linux in the first place. Zoom refuses to work on anything outside of Gnome where Wayland is concerned, screensharing via Pipewire is still broken to the point where I have scrolled to another page or slide on my computer yet my viewers are still seeing the old content i was presenting five minutes earlier (this never happens on macOS and Windows). Teams still expects to be run in an X session and remote control is broken out of the box to the point where the user must manually go into $HOME/.local/config/ and sed -i a very specific string in order for it to have a chance of working. Pulseaudio has a non-zero chance of randomly dying and restarting itself without anyone's knowledge in a web meeting, effectively killing the meeting since the output sinks and input sources are all screwed up when that happens but the web browser or the conferencing software does not know about it and still keeps using the old, non-existent sinks and sources with no option to refresh them outside of quitting the app or browser entirely,

So desktop Linux is joke because of third party proprietary software doesn't work well?

I don't use Zoom. I do use Teams. Teams are actually not maintained for Linux. They just released it as "preview" 2 years ago and that is it. Windows client even does not look the same anymore. Maybe the problem is the company that makes this stuff?

Of course Linux on desktop has its problems.

I had problem with PulseAudio dying and sometimes no sound with PipeWire on Fedora. Debian seems to be much more reliable.

Or Libreoffice randomly crashing when run with SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=Qt5 under a Plasma Wayland environment and having dog-slow performance even with SAL_FORCEGL=1 and SAL_FORCECL=1 enabled. It gets even more ridiculous when an Atom-powered Laptop on Windows 11 can run Microsoft Office and load and scroll a 30-page document filled with photographs, graphics and tables much faster than the same laptop on Linux with LibreOffice, where simply scrolling every few pages causes Libre to stall with a (Not Responding) status for at least half a minute

LibreOffice kinda sucks, but I have it also on Windows and it sucks there as well. Fortunately I rarely need it. However, Microsoft Office also has its crashes.

[birdie]

Since you're unwilling to read I can't help you. It's irrelevant how few vulnerabilities you think MS has. The only relevant thing is how practical it is to exploit them. And how well they are patched. There's no benefit of having allegedly less vulnerabilities if they are easy to exploit and the only ones able to fix them just ignore them until it's way too late. So if you think Windows is secure just because you think it has less vulnerabilities, think again. All the hundreds of companies attacked by Emotet and the likes will sure thanks you if you got rid of your arrogance and faced the facts. They had to learn it the hard way. But if you actually had worked for 25 years in that field and had done a proper job you'd know.

Carefully choosing words and failing to provide any stats. Open source defenders haven't changed one bit.

Let me give you a fact.

Log4j, and tens of thousands powned Linux servers and that's not the only troubling vulnerability we've had.

Does exim ring a bell to you? No? Several remote root vulnerabilities recently.

Now find me anything remotely exploitable on the default windows 10 server configuration over the past decade which has been exploited to the same extent. And figures please.

Yeah, there's been a vulnerability in the print spooler. Fixed and zero info whether and to what extent it's been used. Considering almost no news about it and a ton of news how it's broken printing for thousands of orgs, there's likely nothing to write home about.

This is a topic about web browsers for Debian.

[Artim]

Carefully choosing words and failing to provide any stats. Open source defenders haven't changed one bit.

Let me give you a fact.

Log4j, and tens of thousands powned Linux servers and that's not the only troubling vulnerability we've had.

Does exim ring a bell to you? No? Several remote root vulnerabilities recently.

Now find me anything remotely exploitable on the default windows 10 server configuration over the past decade which has been exploited to the same extent. And figures please.

Yeah, there's been a vulnerability in the print spooler. Fixed and zero info whether and to what extent it's been used. Considering almost no news about it and a ton of news how it's broken printing for thousands of orgs, there's likely nothing to write home about.

This is a topic about web browsers for Debian.

Aforementioned catastrophy with Exchange, just few months back. MS had the chance to patch before anything happens. They just passed everything down until it was actually exploited. For stats just read Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021...er_data_breach

[mdedetrich]

Carefully choosing words and failing to provide any stats. Open source defenders haven't changed one bit.

Let me give you a fact.

Log4j, and tens of thousands powned Linux servers and that's not the only troubling vulnerability we've had.

Does exim ring a bell to you? No? Several remote root vulnerabilities recently.

Now find me anything remotely exploitable on the default windows 10 server configuration over the past decade which has been exploited to the same extent. And figures please.

Yeah, there's been a vulnerability in the print spooler. Fixed and zero info whether and to what extent it's been used. Considering almost no news about it and a ton of news how it's broken printing for thousands of orgs, there's likely nothing to write home about.

This is a topic about web browsers for Debian.

The recent log4j also effects windows servers/machines, many of the demonstrations show this by executing windows calc

[birdie]

Aforementioned catastrophy with Exchange, just few months back. MS had the chance to patch before anything happens. They just passed everything down until it was actually exploited. For stats just read Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021...er_data_breach

Nice catch, MS Exchange is not installed by default on the Windows server. If I understand it correctly it's sold separately.

This is a topic about web browsers for Debian.

[Artim]

Nice catch, MS Exchange is not installed by default on the Windows server. If I understand it correctly it's sold separately.

This is a topic about web browsers for Debian.

Then it's just the same as with your example. No distribution I know of ships Log4j by default, as they normally don't include java. Of you install something relying on it, you'll get it.

And shit can repeat "This is a topic about web browsers for Debian." As often as you want, you won't magically get away with the totally false stuff you write

[mdedetrich]

Nice catch, MS Exchange is not installed by default on the Windows server. If I understand it correctly it's sold separately.

This is a topic about web browsers for Debian.

Dude, drop this, you are completely on the wrong ball here. The log4j exploit was a full privilege escalation which it means it could do anything regardless if the server was running Windows or Linux. Arguably the exploit would be worse on Windows machines due to how much more difficult it is to setup a windows server that is stripped down and only has the bare essentials necessary to run what it needs to run (linux has distro's such as coreos for this).

The questions surfaced about the log4j issue are more about design practices in Java (i.e. why the interpolated lookup strings in the logback xml configuration formatted allowed JNI/LDAP lookups) and also the fact that corporations use open source software but almost never contributed back, especially in the case when we are dealing with an apache backed project.

[tildearrow]

Look, birdie will never acknowledge other people's voices and reiterate what is this topic about and pretend to be leaving on every damn post.
It is just best to ignore him.

I know, it's annoying and even I have the urge to counter him, but he won't learn.

[birdie]

Dude, drop this, you are completely on the wrong ball here. The log4j exploit was a full privilege escalation which it means it could do anything regardless if the server was running Windows or Linux. Arguably the exploit would be worse on Windows machines due to how much more difficult it is to setup a windows server that is stripped down and only has the bare essentials necessary to run what it needs to run (linux has distro's such as coreos for this).

The questions surfaced about the log4j issue are more about design practices in Java (i.e. why the interpolated lookup strings in the logback xml configuration formatted allowed JNI/LDAP lookups) and also the fact that corporations use open source software but almost never contributed back, especially in the case when we are dealing with an apache backed project.

This discussion started with the "fact" that Open Source software is inherently secure since it's open, and closed source software is rife with hidden holes.

You're now completely changing and subverting the original postulate and talking about something different.

Look, birdie will never acknowledge other people's voices and reiterate what is this topic about and pretend to be leaving on every damn post.
It is just best to ignore him.

I know, it's annoying and even I have the urge to counter him, but he won't learn.

This whole comment is despicable as you're trying to join the attacking crowd without providing any facts. An amazing quality conversation, "Ah, I see others have found new things to throw at you, you suck, birdie!" Sorry, I see nothing to learn from this discussion. Random facts are thrown in while no one can prove that the default Windows 10 installation having seen a lot fewer vulnerabilities than the Linux kernel alone is less secure.

Then it's just the same as with your example. No distribution I know of ships Log4j by default, as they normally don't include java. Of you install something relying on it, you'll get it.

And shit can repeat "This is a topic about web browsers for Debian." As often as you want, you won't magically get away with the totally false stuff you write

Was it you how claimed that Open Source is inherently secure because it's checked by thousands of eyes? The hell you're talking about now?

Log4j is an open source application/library/whatever, must be secure or at least more secure than closed source alternatives, right?

Random facts and vulnerabilities beyond the core Windows 10 installation cannot possibly prove that the entire W10 OS is less secure than just the Linux kernel alone.

Here's the open source Linux kernel for ya: https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-s...y/2021/12/15/4 yet another local root vulnerability

How nice of y'all. Over and out, never gonna check this topic ever again.